Start Simmons or Jefferson - bench Espinoza thread

[FlatironsBuff]

That's what I figured would be the case. So many things you just can't pick up in practice. For all his lip service to their gains in practice I wonder how far away from ready Hawkins considers them to be. I don't think we will see any of them on the field much this season.

Pardon my French, but I am getting to the point that I don't give a **** anymore. Hawk can sit the best players on the bench all he wants-- and he will pay for it with his job and his career. No other D1 team will ever give him a chance again after he ****ed over the team for his son and his sons best freind. **** him.

 

[BuffMania]

Now just think: Had you all just listened to me a few months ago when I said we shouldn't expect big things from Simmons this year, we wouldn't be up in arms about Simmons sitting on the bench.

 

[Swish]

Pardon my French, but I am getting to the point that I don't give a **** anymore. Hawk can sit the best players on the bench all he wants-- and he will pay for it with his job and his career. No other D1 team will ever give him a chance again after he ****ed over the team for his son and his sons best freind. **** him.

In general the all the issues swirling around Hawk and the program have been debated to the point of exhaustion.

It is time for him to field a winner or get out. Too bad we have to wait for a week yet to get another sampling of his product.

Til then I feel like this guy

Just waiting for regime to die

 

[Chilly]

Pardon my French, but I am getting to the point that I don't give a **** anymore. Hawk can sit the best players on the bench all he wants-- and he will pay for it with his job and his career. No other D1 team will ever give him a chance again after he ****ed over the team for his son and his sons best freind. **** him.

These are the statements that have shown some are losing all perspective. do you really think Hawkins is in the business of losing games just so Cody and McKight bet playing time? Do you really think he is going to put his professional livelyhood at risk so his son and McKnight get playing time.

Statements like this are not just over the top, they are a slap in the face to the two players who are out there busting the hump to make this a better team.

 

[buffsyko]

These are the statements that have shown some are losing all perspective. do you really think Hawkins is in the business of losing games just so Cody and McKight bet playing time? Do you really think he is going to put his professional livelyhood at risk so his son and McKnight get playing time.

Statements like this are not just over the top, they are a slap in the face to the two players who are out there busting the hump to make this a better team.

Mcknight should be playing, but hawk has screwed up the qb situation to say the least.But hey who are we to say, it's worked out great so far......

 

[TheRoyale90]

Mcknight should be playing, but hawk has screwed up the qb situation to say the least.But hey who are we to say, it's worked out great so far......

Wait man. fatbuff and chilly convinced me of how wrong I am to question authority. We're not coaches so we don't know anything and the town marshals are tired of our bellyaching so let's just go over to their side. Status quo. Everything is fine.

 

[Chilly]

That is exactly what I am saying. If what you are doing isn't working, you need to change it.

I think what several of us are trying to say that change just for the sake of change is not always the best thing. We all want to see the bigger, faster, taller WR break out and show that there physical attributes can be used on the field.

The only point I am making is that, in light of the fact that I have a very microscopic view of what happens during practice and team meetings, is that, just having the physical stats does not make you the better player. You have to show that you know how to apply what you are learning in practice to the game. It is quite possible and feasible, that as young as our WR are, they just have taken that step yet. It is VERY early in their careers and we are all confident that it will happen for them. I would hope that we some this set of WR continue to get better through at the year. At some point things will become natural for them and it is at that point that you should see them start to compete for more PT.

I think it is a bad move to just go ahead and put them in the game and let it fly.

Hawkins has no problem playing the better players when they are ready. Ryan Miller and Rodney Stuart are great examples of this.

Being a physical specimen only gets you so far. This is true at a number of positions not just WR. OL is another good example. Being big does you know good if you don't know who to block or have the right technique for blocking.

As bad as our O-line has been at times, should we just take the 5 biggest and fastest guys on the team and line them up on the O-line and let them learn on the job?

Here is what I don't understand the most. Because we have a different view we are carrying Hawkins water? Because we have a different take on it we are all Hawkins apologists? At no point have I said I am a better fan then anyone else on this board, but I continue to get responses such as chilly the superfan? Why because I view things differently.

There was a time around here that people could actually debate football without jumping down each others throats.

 

[Chilly]

Mcknight should be playing, but hawk has screwed up the qb situation to say the least.But hey who are we to say, it's worked out great so far......

Discussing a need for improved QB play and saying that Cody is only playing because of his family tree are completely two different statements.

 

[supahphish]

These are the statements that have shown some are losing all perspective. do you really think Hawkins is in the business of losing games just so Cody and McKight bet playing time? Do you really think he is going to put his professional livelyhood at risk so his son and McKnight get playing time.

Statements like this are not just over the top, they are a slap in the face to the two players who are out there busting the hump to make this a better team.

The problem with saying that is you are looking at it from an outsider's perspective and applying your own rationality to the situation.

Is Hawkins playing favorites, being nepotic, and purposely messing with the program without regard for the team's success and his own job security? No, I genuinely think he is doing what he believes gives the team the best chance of winning games. Key words - what he thinks. But it is easy to see how he might be looking at things through rose colored glasses, and throw that in with a healthy dose of egotism and me-against-the-world mentality and as time goes on he just becomes more entrenched with little incentive to change because he thinks he is soooo close and the team just needs to fix a few little things. Then when it comes around he can stick it to his detractors and say "I told you so."

I'm not saying one view or the other is the truth; as usual it probably lies somewhere in the middle. But you really have to wonder if he's a bit too enamored with wanting to always uncover the next 2*/walk-on diamond in the rough as some kind of proof of his coaching prowess. It's true that you can't just trot out random athletes on the field and expect them to be impact players. On the other hand, football isn't rocket science.

 

[supahphish]

I think what several of us are trying to say that change just for the sake of change is not always the best thing. We all want to see the bigger, faster, taller WR break out and show that there physical attributes can be used on the field.

Ok, you typically have been the voice of reason which is a nice balance to everyone who is exploding with anger, but I have a problem with this. "Change for the sake of change" implies that the status quo is sufficient, that what we have is working fine but people aren't happy with it for some insignificant reason. The reality is that our passing game as it stands is a train wreck. If our WR corps were putting in solid games then no one would be clamoring for more playing time for Simmons or anyone else, and no one would be complaining about player groupings. So obviously things are not working, and to think that it'll improve as we go into conference play and the opponents only get tougher without some changes is just delusional.

 

[BuffMania]

I think what several of us are trying to say that change just for the sake of change is not always the best thing.

Change just for the sake of change? You're implying that those who want a new HC have no basis for wanting it. And that is just absurd.

I want change because I'm tied of losing 2 games for every 1 game we win. It's year 4 already.

 

[FlatironsBuff]

These are the statements that have shown some are losing all perspective. do you really think Hawkins is in the business of losing games just so Cody and McKight bet playing time? Do you really think he is going to put his professional livelihood at risk so his son and McKnight get playing time.

Statements like this are not just over the top, they are a slap in the face to the two players who are out there busting the hump to make this a better team.

Losing all perspective?? Me?? How about you!! The guy is four years plus into coaching here, this is as easy of a schedule as we can remember, and I can't find a game he looks like he can win this year. He may be screwed because he signed his kid to QB here and his kid is not D1 material, can't seem to coach up anyone--- and you keep defending him.

If someone has lost perspective here, it seems to be you. Yes, perhaps he is putting the best players on the field right now. But four years in, it does not look good enough to beat ISU, KSU or Baylor. Right now, four years in, it looks like CU is the worst team in the Big 12. Right now, it looks like CU is middle of the pack at best in the MWC or the MAC. Maybe that is ok from your 'perspective'; but it looks and smells like **** to me.

Please, please let me be wrong-- and I have no illusions of him being fired even if we are 1-4 or even 1-6. But this 'home run hire' has the team looking as bad as I have ever seen them, and it boggles my mind, since I feel we have more talent than we have had here since the early 2000s.

I am afraid that as far as the QB situation goes-- Dad playing his son may be because his son is as good as we have. Problem is, we have lost out on some good QB's because nobody in their right mind will some compete with 'Daddy's boy'. Just on the off chance that Dad would actually show nepotism. So we went several cycles without landing a better QB. I am pretty sure that the Utah QB now went there because he saw no playing time for at least two years. Now I do feel we have a good shot at a good QB this or next year, but then to develop-- nobody, not even Bohn is going to wait another 3-4 years to see what he can do without Cody.

 

[FlatironsBuff]

Statements like this are not just over the top, they are a slap in the face to the two players who are out there busting the hump to make this a better team.

Great for them. I am sure that we could find about a thousand guys who would love to put on the pads and go out there and bust their hump to make this a better team-- Unleash, Sacky and me would be three of them. We would love to go help CU get back to prominence. But you know what? We also know that we are not Big 12 starting player type of athletes. Just because they are busting their humps does not mean we have to be happy with a coach that loses twice as much as he wins because 'he has guys out there busting their humps!!'

He needs to have B12 quality kids (size, speed) out there busting their humps. If he can't put that on the field, then the Big 12 is not a place for him to coach. Period. And so far, I don't see it coming together. Right now, I see ISU and KSU starting to look at CU as a 'gimmie' win. And if you can't tell--- it pisses me off!:lol:

 

[Chilly]

Ok, you typically have been the voice of reason which is a nice balance to everyone who is exploding with anger, but I have a problem with this. "Change for the sake of change" implies that the status quo is sufficient, that what we have is working fine but people aren't happy with it for some insignificant reason. The reality is that our passing game as it stands is a train wreck. If our WR corps were putting in solid games then no one would be clamoring for more playing time for Simmons or anyone else, and no one would be complaining about player groupings. So obviously things are not working, and to think that it'll improve as we go into conference play and the opponents only get tougher without some changes is just delusional.

I disagree. I am not intending to imply that the status quo is sufficient. But not all changes are good. The point of that statement was not that a change doesn't need to be made, but that the right change is needed. May the right change is to involve a healthy Simas into the game plan and use him to provide some speed down the field. We haven't had the chance to see what he brings to the game plan when healthy yet. Maybe he adds enough spark that you give Simmons an extra week or so to get comfortable with the offense so that he can gain more time on the field as well. I would think a line-up of Simas, Simmon, and McKight would be something we would all like to see, especially if all them are in tune with what they are being asked to do on the field.

My point, is that if you are going to make a change make sure it is one you buy into, not just a change because what you are doing isn't working. I have seen a lot of changes made because "What we are doing isn't working", and the end result of the change was an acceleration of the complete failure rather than a reversal. Sometimes the right change really is just a small alteration.

 

[buffsyko]

I disagree. I am not intending to imply that the status quo is sufficient. But not all changes are good. The point of that statement was not that a change doesn't need to be made, but that the right change is needed. May the right change is to involve a healthy Simas into the game plan and use him to provide some speed down the field. We haven't had the chance to see what he brings to the game plan when healthy yet. Maybe he adds enough spark that you give Simmons an extra week or so to get comfortable with the offense so that he can gain more time on the field as well. I would think a line-up of Simas, Simmon, and McKight would be something we would all like to see, especially if all them are in tune with what they are being asked to do on the field.

My point, is that if you are going to make a change make sure it is one you buy into, not just a change because what you are doing isn't working. I have seen a lot of changes made because "What we are doing isn't working", and the end result of the change was an acceleration of the complete failure rather than a reversal. Sometimes the right change really is just a small alteration.

Okay, what type of reaction do you think fans of any other bcs schools would give if in our situation? What, is hawk so special that complaining about 14-26 is unfounded? It's not just the record, it's his way of doing things and his ho-hum attitude about losing and the way he uses players and the lies/excuses he gives.

 

[Chilly]

Losing all perspective?? Me?? How about you!! The guy is four years plus into coaching here, this is as easy of a schedule as we can remember, and I can't find a game he looks like he can win this year. He may be screwed because he signed his kid to QB here and his kid is not D1 material, can't seem to coach up anyone--- and you keep defending him.

If someone has lost perspective here, it seems to be you. Yes, perhaps he is putting the best players on the field right now. But four years in, it does not look good enough to beat ISU, KSU or Baylor. Right now, four years in, it looks like CU is the worst team in the Big 12. Right now, it looks like CU is middle of the pack at best in the MWC or the MAC. Maybe that is ok from your 'perspective'; but it looks and smells like **** to me.

Please, please let me be wrong-- and I have no illusions of him being fired even if we are 1-4 or even 1-6. But this 'home run hire' has the team looking as bad as I have ever seen them, and it boggles my mind, since I feel we have more talent than we have had here since the early 2000s.

I am afraid that as far as the QB situation goes-- Dad playing his son may be because his son is as good as we have. Problem is, we have lost out on some good QB's because nobody in their right mind will some compete with 'Daddy's boy'. Just on the off chance that Dad would actually show nepotism. So we went several cycles without landing a better QB. I am pretty sure that the Utah QB now went there because he saw no playing time for at least two years. Now I do feel we have a good shot at a good QB this or next year, but then to develop-- nobody, not even Bohn is going to wait another 3-4 years to see what he can do without Cody.

Fine you are unhappy with the product you are seeing on the field. Fine you are unhappy with Hawkins record after 3 seasons and 3 games. Fine if you think it's time for a change because of that.

BUT that is not what you stated. You implied that Hawkins has intentionally screwed CU just so Cody and McKnight could start. That statement is a bunch of crap!

When your argument goes from "I am not pleased with progress I am seeing with this team under Hawkins", to "Juice Box doesn't care if we win or lose as long as Cody plays D1 ball". Then I am sorry but you have lost your perceptive on what you were originally arguing.

You can disagree with my take that I think CU is 1 year away from doing some really good thinks on the football field. It's all good. That is what makes the world go round.

But when you try to pass off speculation such as "we have lost out on some good QB's because nobody in their right mind will some compete with 'Daddy's boy'" as facts. You weaken the point you are trying to get across. Do you really if Hawkins had a chance to recruit and start a Bradford or McCoy he wouldn't? Unless you know for fact, that a QB has gone on record as saying, or confided in you that they "Chose not to attend CU because of nepotism" then in the end it is all just BS speculation.

arguing about speculation is waste of everyone's time.

 

[Chilly]

Okay, what type of reaction do you think fans of any other bcs schools would give if in our situation? What, is hawk so special that complaining about 14-26 is unfounded? It's not just the record, it's his way of doing things and his ho-hum attitude about losing and the way he uses players and the lies/excuses he gives.

As my Dad use to say to me while growing up. I don't give two ****s about what other people are doing. I only care about we are doing.

I have never said I think the fans should be happy and that the fans should not want and even demand better. That discussion has run it's course with me. I think it's pretty clear where I stand and how I believe better things will happen for this team if we stay the course 1 more year. Fine we disagree with the solution to the problem.

However, the complaining that has been going on has devolved into blind hatred. Debate the guys style of coaching, and game day planning all you want. But when people attack coaches and players at a personal level for weeks on end, then it has past the point of venting in my opinion.

 

[buffsyko]

As my Dad use to say to me while growing up. I don't give two ****s about what other people are doing. I only care about we are doing.

I have never said I think the fans should be happy and that the fans should not want and even demand better. That discussion has run it's course with me. I think it's pretty clear where I stand and how I believe better things will happen for this team if we stay the course 1 more year. Fine we disagree with the solution to the problem.

However, the complaining that has been going on has devolved into blind hatred. Debate the guys style of coaching, and game day planning all you want. But when people attack coaches and players at a personal level for weeks on end, then it has past the point of venting in my opinion.

Hawk's a big boy and should be getting heat. This has run it's course and over the next 3 weeks,we'll see where hawk and this program stands.

 

[TheRoyale90]

As my Dad use to say to me while growing up. I don't give two ****s about what other people are doing. I only care about we are doing.

I have never said I think the fans should be happy and that the fans should not want and even demand better. That discussion has run it's course with me. I think it's pretty clear where I stand and how I believe better things will happen for this team if we stay the course 1 more year. Fine we disagree with the solution to the problem.

However, the complaining that has been going on has devolved into blind hatred. Debate the guys style of coaching, and game day planning all you want. But when people attack coaches and players at a personal level for weeks on end, then it has past the point of venting in my opinion.

Fine. All bad blood aside, I just want to know what in 4 years worth of losing would make you believe that this team is about to turn the corner? You say to debate the guy's style of coaching and his gameday decisions. Okay, he's 14-26. That speaks for itself. You're tired of all of us hating on hawk and we're tired of you defending hawk. Tell us, what should we talk about? We rarely win so talking about how good we are is out... we don't have any nationally prominent players to follow and the program is best known for the "scandal" and hawk's dimestore zen sayings. I just don't even know what's left if we can't at least talk about how disappointed we are in the state of the program.

 

[AlferdJasper]

You can disagree with my take that I think CU is 1 year away from doing some really good thinks on the football field. It's all good. That is what makes the world go round.

Rational or not, I think we are going to see some good progress this year and 2010 may be THE year. Pass the koolaid, I still believe.

 

[GoBuffs08]

Rational or not, I think we are going to see some good progress this year and 2010 may be THE year. Pass the koolaid, I still believe.

That is the spirit!!!!!!!!!!!:thumbsup:

 

[stampy]

Rational or not, I think we are going to see some good progress this year and 2010 may be THE year. Pass the koolaid, I still believe.

 

[leftybuff]

You can disagree with my take that I think CU is 1 year away from doing some really good thinks on the football field. .

I have a funny feeling we will always be one year away from doing good things on the football field with Hawk at the helm....:huh:

 

[TheRoyale90]

Damn! You couldn't have come up with a more fitting indictment of the 'pass the koolaid' sentiment that's still floating around here.

 

[west coast]

Espy isn't the root of problem here. Cody is. Fix the qb situation and we'll be able to take advantage of our bigger, faster, stronger receivers. Simple as that.[/QUOTE

u all crack me up. new qb we'd be fine, get real.

 

[Chilly]

Fine. All bad blood aside, I just want to know what in 4 years worth of losing would make you believe that this team is about to turn the corner? You say to debate the guy's style of coaching and his gameday decisions. Okay, he's 14-26. That speaks for itself. You're tired of all of us hating on hawk and we're tired of you defending hawk. Tell us, what should we talk about? We rarely win so talking about how good we are is out... we don't have any nationally prominent players to follow and the program is best known for the "scandal" and hawk's dimestore zen sayings. I just don't even know what's left if we can't at least talk about how disappointed we are in the state of the program.

No bad blood on my side. and just to clarify. I don't take this stuff personal. That is the whole point of this board for me. I don't get to talk football with CU fans very often, so coming on here and voicing my opinion, whether it is the same as your or not, is my way of getting my CU football talk fix.

I have no issues with people being unhappy about Hawkins and calling him out for performance to date.

I take issue more with comments that resemble things like "he only plays the kids who play X-Box with Cody". or "He is intentionally playing the worse players to prove a point". I think comments like that are not only slamming Hawkins but the kids who are out their on the field on Saturday doing their best to represent all of us and win games.

 

[Buffarino]

Damn! You couldn't have come up with a more fitting indictment of the 'pass the koolaid' sentiment that's still floating around here.

Seeing how that is where the saying came from...

 

[Buffarino]

My point, is that if you are going to make a change make sure it is one you buy into, not just a change because what you are doing isn't working. I have seen a lot of changes made because "What we are doing isn't working", and the end result of the change was an acceleration of the complete failure rather than a reversal. Sometimes the right change really is just a small alteration.

Yep. If they don't change something soon, we might end up losing games to MWC and MAC teams. :lol:

 

[FlatironsBuff]

You can disagree with my take that I think CU is 1 year away from doing some really good things on the football field. It's all good. That is what makes the world go round.

AH, I see now. You are were I was one year ago. Not sure how it will work, but I went from thinking we were one year away to being beat like a rented mule by CSU and Toledo. So for the team to go from what you see in a year to looking waaaaay worse---- can a team win negative games??

Now, I have gone from 'next year!!' mentality to 'next years schedule is harder and the team is looking worse this year than last with all the injuries---there is literally almost now way for the program to go any further backwards!!'. But, yeah, sure. If it helps you sleep at night, the team is one (more) year away from doing some good things on the football field.

 

[AlferdJasper]

toney clemmons for one.