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CU has rejoined the Big 12 and broken college football - talking out asses continues

According to the Minnesota dude who has been spot on for months, Big 10 is waiting on Notre Dame and could have an answer soon.

If Notre Dame joins, expansion is probably pushed to 20 because inventory and cachet pays for it. Could include Oregon, Washington + Stanford/Kansas/Us/the field
 
The Alabaster Yak said:
LOL you literally responded to a post talking about TV markets and viewership by saying it’s going to matter “way less that you think”
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That was not mentioned.

The size of the fanbase matters and the engagement of the fanbases with their programs, not the size of the TV market. Look at Denver and how many people care about CU there. That is my point and I have been consistent with that point for a while. They want big schools with big fanbases that care and engage with their programs, not teams who sit in big TV markets where most people don't give 2 ****s about college football.
 
Jens1893 said:
That was not mentioned.

The size of the fanbase matters and the engagement of the fanbases with their programs, not the size of the TV market. Look at Denver and how many people care about CU there. That is my point and I have been consistent with that point for a while. They want big schools with big fanbases that care and engage with their programs, not teams who sit in big TV markets where most people don't give 2 ****s about college football.
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Engagement counts for sure, but market size still matters depending on distribution strategy. If you can add the Big 10 network or similar to the basic or required packages sold by providers in different regions you do get value out of that.

If they can sell the Big 10 network in Phoenix or Denver and get returns that make sense, they’ll add a school
 
Keeping large markets engaged in college football still matters though. Is the exploding Denver market worth the investment to the Big 10 and SEC? We will see.
 
LesGrossman said:
Engagement counts for sure, but market size still matters depending on distribution strategy. If you can add the Big 10 network or similar to the basic or required packages sold by providers in different regions you do get value out of that
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Yes, but I think then you need to see how interested that market or people in that market are in college football. I think a smaller TV market with a high number of high engaging college football fans will be more attractive than a bigger market where no one cares. I think that is my main point and I also think we are going to be moving away from the fans are local to the program thing as I do see the bigger programs such as Alabama, Georgia, LSU etc. attracting fans nationwide way more so than they do now once the stratification progresses to the point where we probably have a SEC/B1G duopoly and I don't see a way around a one conference super league in the long term.
 
BuffBronco said:
is it better to be competitive in a conference of irrelevant leftovers or getting stomped on by the likes of Ohio State, Michigan etc week after week
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Yes

I don't get the "irrelevant" assertion. In the 80's, 90's and early 00's, we were not in the NC picture many of the years. We went to bowl games without NC implications most years. Yet, it was great. We were competitive, and it was a fun to watch games that had no NC meaning whatsoever. The shift to the playoff system created this implication that games beyond those with playoff implications are "irrelevant." I disagree. I don't care about those games. I've never watched an OSU or Michigan game. I don't watch the playoff games. I watch CU games, and if the games are good and the CU team is engaging and interesting, I enjoy the games. We need to get back to being competitive and hopeful, but I don't need the team to compete for the NC to enjoy being a fan.
 
Jens1893 said:
Notre Dame, Clemson and FSU are the only teams that move the needle there in a tangible way.
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Then why did the B1G add Maryland & Rutgers in the first place? Football is important but the B1G is not going to compromise on their academics & research positions even if Nebraska was admitted with the knowledge that they were going to lose that AAU status. That is why there are those rumors of the AZ schools going to the Big 12 because ASU isn't an AAU member.

Georgia Tech, UNC, and UVA (all AAU schools) will be targeted by the B1G next decade assuming the ACC GOR is legit. The SEC doesn't need GT since UGA is pretty close to Atlanta but they will make a play for UNC and UVA. If that doesn't work, NCSU & VT are suitable fallback options because they would be within that fast growing Tidewater area and that region is very vital to the economy of the United States given its warehouses for importing goods from other countries via Norfolk plus they have shown more commitment to football than UNC & UVA has done of late.
 
onealcd said:
Keeping large markets engaged in college football still matters though. Is the exploding Denver market worth the investment to the Big 10 and SEC? We will see.
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How many people care? That's the key question. Denver being the 11th biggest market says nothing in that regard as I think it is becoming very obvious that fanbases of SEC teams in particular are way more engaged with their programs than fans in most other conferences. I am not sure you need CU in your conference in order to get the Denver market particularly if we're moving to a scenario where it's a SEC/B1G duopoly. I think some will turn their backs on CFB but I also think that several people will just adopt teams from the big time conferences and maybe watch "their" tier 2 school on the side if that makes sense.
 
Jens1893 said:
How many people care? That's the key question. Denver being the 11th biggest market says nothing in that regard as I think it is becoming very obvious that fanbases of SEC teams in particular are way more engaged with their programs than fans in most other conferences. I am not sure you need CU in your conference in order to get the Denver market particularly if we're moving to a scenario where it's a SEC/B1G duopoly. I think some will turn their backs on CFB but I also think that several people will just adopt teams from the big time conferences and maybe watch "their" tier 2 school on the side if that makes sense.
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I think if CU gets left behind it drives further apathy toward CFB in the state. Same with Utah, AZ, and ASU. People care about broader CFB because their teams also have a stake in the game. Take that away and it becomes regional at best.

On the flip side, adding CU to the B1G likely reinvigorates the fandom of CFB here, IMO
 
PAC MAN said:
Then why did the B1G add Maryland & Rutgers in the first place? Football is important but the B1G is not going to compromise on their academics & research positions even if Nebraska was admitted with the knowledge that they were going to lose that AAU status. That is why there are those rumors of the AZ schools going to the Big 12 because ASU isn't an AAU member.

Georgia Tech, UNC, and UVA (all AAU schools) will be targeted by the B1G next decade assuming the ACC GOR is legit. The SEC doesn't need GT since UGA is pretty close to Atlanta but they will make a play for UNC and UVA. If that doesn't work, NCSU & VT are suitable fallback options because they would be within that fast growing Tidewater area and that region is very vital to the economy of the United States given its warehouses for importing goods from other countries via Norfolk plus they have shown more commitment to football than UNC & UVA has done of late.
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Because things were different back then than they are now. That was ten years ago. I think the landscape has changed massively since then.
 
The Alabaster Yak said:
I think if CU gets left behind it drives further apathy toward CFB in the state. Same with Utah, AZ, and ASU. People care about broader CFB because their teams also have a stake in the game. Take that away and it becomes the MLB.
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For some that may certainly be true, yes, but I wouldn't underestimate the national potential with t-shirt fans for the big schools. And while I also understand your minor league NFL point that you commonly make I think the atmosphere in the SEC may yet prove to be one of the USPs that attracts people despite the obvious problem.
 
I just don’t see any way they only ride with USC and UCLA. The current map looks like a complete logistical nightmare for the conference. There has to be a bridge (hello Colorado and Utah)
 
Duff Man said:
Actually, I think the teams who move the needle the most are Notre Dame and North Carolina. Any conference would love to have either team.
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Do I seriously underestimate the potential, size, financial support and engagement of the UNC football fanbase?
 
A conference with UW, UO, UA, ASU, BYU, UU, CU, KU, KSU, OSU, Tech and Baylor is a freak of a hoops conference. That alone might be enough to push P12 Net distribution to where it needs to be. It’s not a terrible football conference, but hoops is next level. It really wouldn’t bother me at all to be in that conference.
 
Where do you think all of the people are from that are moving to Colorado?

Half of Colorado’s new residents in the last 10 years have come from only 10 states: California, Texas, Florida, Arizona, Illinois, New York, New Mexico, Washington, Virginia and Kansas. A quarter of them came from the nation’s three most populous states: California, Texas and Florida.

The Big 10 doesn't need the Buffs to get the Denver market.
 
I just hope the leadership at CU is trying to leverage everything they can to get into the Big 10. That is the best outcome. You can argue about the pluses and minuses but I think Fox and the Big 10 have already laid out different scenarios behind closed doors and have rated them. We do not know where CU ranks in those ratings.
 
The Alabaster Yak said:
I think if CU gets left behind it drives further apathy toward CFB in the state. Same with Utah, AZ, and ASU. People care about broader CFB because their teams also have a stake in the game. Take that away and it becomes regional at best.

On the flip side, adding CU to the B1G likely reinvigorates the fandom of CFB here, IMO
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As much as CU fans probably wanted to associate themselves with fine wine-sushi eating-coffee snobs; CU v Wisconsin or Michigan State or Penn State or Nebraska is probably more up our alley.
 
Not Sure said:
A conference with UW, UO, UA, ASU, BYU, UU, CU, KU, KSU, OSU, Tech and Baylor is a freak of a hoops conference. That alone might be enough to push P12 Net distribution to where it needs to be. It’s not a terrible football conference, but hoops is next level. It really wouldn’t bother me at all to be in that conference.
Click to expand...

Maybe there is some potential in branding yourself as the basketball conference but even then you need to consider that the money generated in the football super conferences will also be used to fund their basketball programs. And that financial difference will be enormous and won't take too much money to fund compared to football. Look at how some European football clubs in Spain, Turkey and Greece etc. field teams that compete at the top of the game in basketball or handball as well, for example. Real Madrid hold the record for most EuroLeagues won and Barcelona do for the handball Champions League. And those programs are primarily funded with the money they make from football.
 
jpbuff said:
Where do you think all of the people are from that are moving to Colorado?

Half of Colorado’s new residents in the last 10 years have come from only 10 states: California, Texas, Florida, Arizona, Illinois, New York, New Mexico, Washington, Virginia and Kansas. A quarter of them came from the nation’s three most populous states: California, Texas and Florida.

The Big 10 doesn't need the Buffs to get the Denver market.
Click to expand...

That is my point exactly. Plus I see those big programs attracting more and more non-alum fans.
 
jpbuff said:
Where do you think all of the people are from that are moving to Colorado?

Half of Colorado’s new residents in the last 10 years have come from only 10 states: California, Texas, Florida, Arizona, Illinois, New York, New Mexico, Washington, Virginia and Kansas. A quarter of them came from the nation’s three most populous states: California, Texas and Florida.

The Big 10 doesn't need the Buffs to get the Denver market.
Click to expand...
I think the state of Colorado has shown to be sports crazed as anywhere in the country when the programs in the state are good and even non-CU fans show out to Folsom when CU is good. It would be a mistake to just leave the Mountain region out of the big conferences
 
Jens1893 said:
That was not mentioned.

The size of the fanbase matters and the engagement of the fanbases with their programs, not the size of the TV market. Look at Denver and how many people care about CU there. That is my point and I have been consistent with that point for a while. They want big schools with big fanbases that care and engage with their programs, not teams who sit in big TV markets where most people don't give 2 ****s about college football.
Click to expand...
This makes sense, except for one piece of empirical evidence that completely contradicts it.

Rutgers
 
Jens1893 said:
Maybe there is some potential in branding yourself as the basketball conference but even then you need to consider that the money generated in the football super conferences will also be used to fund their basketball programs. And that financial difference will be enormous and won't take too much money to fund compared to football. Look at how some European football clubs in Spain, Turkey and Greece etc. field teams that compete at the top of the game in basketball or handball as well, for example. Real Madrid hold the record for most EuroLeagues won and Barcelona do for the handball Champions League. And those programs are primarily funded with the money they make from football.
Click to expand...
I fully understand that football is driving this. I’m trying to come at this from the angle that a super hoops conference with it’s own network can drive significant revenues as well. Not like what the P2 are getting, but solid revenues just the same.
 
Jens1893 said:
Do I seriously underestimate the potential, size, financial support and engagement of the UNC football fanbase?
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I'm with Jens here. On purely the football front, people from/grads of UNC. UVa, Duke, NCSU could give two sh!ts about their football teams. Hell, IIRC when UNC came to ODU for football last year, I think the stadium had a slight ODU tilt to it.

You want rabid football fans for the screens in Tidewater? It's VTech hands down. All those other fans are concerned with is how far they can stick their pompous ass academic "my sh!t don't stink" noses up in the air so it's higher than the others.

Now, if basketball is a concern, then some discussion can be had there.

Bottom Line - Tidewater (Va. Beach, Norfolk, etc) is Hokieland (w/JMU a close second) and it's not close. That's why it was so fun to see those turkeys lose to ODU in 2019. (Sorry, @hokiehead )
 
Not sure why I’m so pessimistic but I will be pretty surprised if Big 10 takes us. Also I feel if they do take is we get curb stomped every week.
 
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