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Dave Logan to csu?

skibum said:
There are some on this thread and elsewhere that are essentially saying "even if they had a great stadium, in a great location, had a solid PR/community outreach program, and had a decent team, maybe even in an AQ conference, they STILL couldn't sell 45,000 tickets." You're not saying that - what I think you're saying is "they're CSU, there's no way they could actually execute a plan to get a great stadium, in a great location with solid PR and a decent team - CSU is, and will always be, CSU."

You might be right; Aggie is Aggie, and CSU is, well, CSU. But the people who are saying that under no reasonable circumstances could it ever happen - they're just wrong. It could happen, it would require vision, leadership and a hell of a lot of hard work and sustained effort over a long period of time. It would probably also require at least one "lucky" break somewhere along the way. That lucky break will probably happen no matter what - if they've put the effort to be ready to take advantage of that break when it happens, good for them. But if they're not ready...

[Actually one lucky break already passed them by: CU leaving the Big 12. Had they started really putting the effort into all of these things when Saint Sonny was in his glory years, they could have slid right into our old slot in the B12. I bet some alumni realized that, and went "****!!! why weren't we ready?!?!" and vowed to actually be ready if/when the next opportunity comes by. With all the realignment stuff, they may only get one more chance - will they be ready in time?]
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I agree with most of this. I don't care for CSU and would love for them to fail - cause I'm a jerk.

However, to say it will NEVER happen is silly. I don't think it will happen, but what they are doing is a desperate move and it COULD work out. I don't know if they have enough time for it to all work out - They need the facilities built, they need to show renewed fan interest, then need to improve on the field - but they have to give it a go now or else they will have NO chance.

Some conference at some point is going to want the TV sets that CSU supposedly brings with the Denver market.
 
CsquaredCC said:
http://www.fcgov.com/youtube.php?vid=LnSbJbIb9Ow

Sackman:

Check out this proposal on the development of the Mason Corridor (3:15). Talking about gaining potential long-term access to Denver Alumni this is one way to do it. A transportation system like this would literally drop Denver alumni on campus. This is the sort of long-range comprehensive planning that needs to be happening right now.
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That sounds very "pie in the sky" to me. These kinds of mass transit/rail things are nearly always too expensive and rarely deliver what they promise. They say they will link into Denver, but how? On the existing rail? You realize that actually goes through Boulder first, right? In any event, that won't happen until after FasTracks is done, and the NW line of FasTracks won't be completed until somewhere around 2025 - maybe.

Sounds cool, but I wouldn't get too excited.
 
sackman said:
That sounds very "pie in the sky" to me. These kinds of mass transit/rail things are nearly always too expensive and rarely deliver what they promise. They say they will link into Denver, but how? On the existing rail? You realize that actually goes through Boulder first, right? In any event, that won't happen until after FasTracks is done, and the NW line of FasTracks won't be completed until somewhere around 2025 - maybe.

Sounds cool, but I wouldn't get too excited.
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You're thinking like before csu got so serious about football. Things are different now.
 
MtnBuff said:
Last time they got a big donation they thought they were on the way to the big time. They were in the rankings or close, they had won a bunch of games with Sonny, they got the Stryker donation and were on the way.

Instead they reverted to being CSU, a tail end team in a tail end conference. Wins went away, interest went away, and their newly expanded and renovated stadium has gone more and more empty every season.

Based on prior history I would find it hard to believe that a bunch of big dollars are going to step forward to fill their dreams. A new stadium on campus would raise attendance. It wouldn't raise it enough to make them competitive. Even if they got lucky with a coach and started to win again they aren't going to exceed 30K on a regular basis, even with lower ticket prices that AQ schools normally charge.
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There you have it. They act as if building an on-campus stadium is suddenly going to make then a big-time football program and get them into one of the BCS conferences. There are no indications of a demand for 50K per game, or even 40K for that matter. Even in the few real good years under Lubick they weren't selling out consistently.
 
CarolinaBuff said:
There you have it. They act as if building an on-campus stadium is suddenly going to make then a big-time football program and get them into one of the BCS conferences. There are no indications of a demand for 30K per game, or even 25K for that matter. Even in the few real good years under Lubick they weren't selling out consistently.
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fify
 
CSU fans think they're gonna get 2011 MAC champ coach Dave Doeren.... Ha, like that's not a step down for him. Or Paul Chryst, one of the hottest coaching candidates in the nation
 
sackman said:
I don't think you're paying attention. Either that, or you're being deliberately obtuse. Their current stadium SUCKS. They recognize that. They understand that their current facility is partly to blame for their lack of attendance. They're trying to correct that mistake.

We've mocked them for their "upgrades" at Hughes, but then call them delusional for wanting to build something better?
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So you're a ram fan now? So by buidling an on-campus stadium, our invisible Big pocket donors are going to all of a sudden pony up?

Btw, **** csu.
 
skibum said:
There are some on this thread and elsewhere that are essentially saying "even if they had a great stadium, in a great location, had a solid PR/community outreach program, and had a decent team, maybe even in an AQ conference, they STILL couldn't sell 45,000 tickets." You're not saying that - what I think you're saying is "they're CSU, there's no way they could actually execute a plan to get a great stadium, in a great location with solid PR and a decent team - CSU is, and will always be, CSU."

You might be right; Aggie is Aggie, and CSU is, well, CSU. But the people who are saying that under no reasonable circumstances could it ever happen - they're just wrong. It could happen, it would require vision, leadership and a hell of a lot of hard work and sustained effort over a long period of time. It would probably also require at least one "lucky" break somewhere along the way. That lucky break will probably happen no matter what - if they've put the effort to be ready to take advantage of that break when it happens, good for them. But if they're not ready...
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Will never happen, as people have said, even during their "glory years" they could not sell out the dump consistently. It's like saying we could sell out a 100K seat Folsom if given the right vision and effort, would never happen either.
 
Ive never thought we should make Folsom over 65k, if that much, because of not being able to consistently fill it. Besides, if it could be designed to up the crowd noise, 60 or 65k can sound like 80k. Folsom is already pretty loud, few tweaks it could be deafening. Whatever on the CSU stuff, they will always be our bitch no matter what. At least the video boards and sound stuff is getting taken care of, thats a start. Need an indoor facility yesterday.
 
CUBUFF80 said:
Will never happen, as people have said, even during their "glory years" they could not sell out the dump consistently. It's like saying we could sell out a 100K seat Folsom if given the right vision and effort, would never happen either.
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What you, and others are refusing to see, is that during their "glory years" they had a **** hole of a stadium. Had they had a decent, on campus stadium, it could have, and probably would have, been different.

Did their ****** stadium detract from attendance during their glory days? Probably, almost assuredly, yes, it did. For your argument to be true, the only thing that matters to football game attendance is the on-field product and historical support. That's just ridiculous on its face.
 
skibum said:
What you, and others are refusing to see, is that during their "glory years" they had a **** hole of a stadium. Had they had a decent, on campus stadium, it could have, and probably would have, been different.

Did their ****** stadium detract from attendance during their glory days? Probably, almost assuredly, yes, it did. For your argument to be true, the only thing that matters to football game attendance is the on-field product and historical support. That's just ridiculous on its face.
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Hmm, not sure I follow. At the end of the day, winning is what's most important (on field product). The primary reason a school would sell out given a losing product would be a history of winning.
 
BuffLuKe said:
Ive never thought we should make Folsom over 65k, if that much, because of not being able to consistently fill it. Besides, if it could be designed to up the crowd noise, 60 or 65k can sound like 80k. Folsom is already pretty loud, few tweaks it could be deafening. Whatever on the CSU stuff, they will always be our bitch no matter what. At least the video boards and sound stuff is getting taken care of, thats a start. Need an indoor facility yesterday.
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Personally I don't think that we will have a legitimate argument to expand Folsom unless the attendance stays at almost capacity for 5 years. We haven't consistently filled the stadium over a period of years for a long time, and it would be foolish to add 10K+ seats just to have them sit empty.

I agree that with the way Folsom is constructed and the way the seats are on top of the field, closing in the north side and adding seats to the top could make Folsom one of the loudest stadiums in the country. I just don't know if that should be the priority at this time.
 
Alfred91 said:
Personally I don't think that we will have a legitimate argument to expand Folsom unless the attendance stays at almost capacity for 5 years. We haven't consistently filled the stadium over a period of years for a long time, and it would be foolish to add 10K+ seats just to have them sit empty.

I agree that with the way Folsom is constructed and the way the seats are on top of the field, closing in the north side and adding seats to the top could make Folsom one of the loudest stadiums in the country. I just don't know if that should be the priority at this time.
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I agree with this....when you start seeing a waiting list for season tickets then would be a good time to consider expanding. Right now there are about 12000 tickets for the walkup crowd every game.
 
skibum said:
What you, and others are refusing to see, is that during their "glory years" they had a **** hole of a stadium. Had they had a decent, on campus stadium, it could have, and probably would have, been different.

Did their ****** stadium detract from attendance during their glory days? Probably, almost assuredly, yes, it did. For your argument to be true, the only thing that matters to football game attendance is the on-field product and historical support. That's just ridiculous on its face.
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So, your weak fans will show up for a couple games in the new stadium (if it ever happens) and will then fade away.
 
skibum said:
What you, and others are refusing to see, is that during their "glory years" they had a **** hole of a stadium. Had they had a decent, on campus stadium, it could have, and probably would have, been different.

Did their ****** stadium detract from attendance during their glory days? Probably, almost assuredly, yes, it did. For your argument to be true, the only thing that matters to football game attendance is the on-field product and historical support. That's just ridiculous on its face.
Click to expand...

I did a grad program there, I work with a bunch of CSU alums every day. A nice, on-campus stadium would help some but the simple fact is that the increase they would get from building a new stadium is still not going to make them a significant player in the world of college football and isn't going to justify the cost of building it.

The simple bottom line is that for the huge majority of people who went there, go there currently, or simply live in the surrounding areas the program is not important enough to them to come out for games. In a word, not enough people really care.

When they had successfull teams the attendance did go up but not enough to make them competitive, when they made the stadium expansion and upgrades as well as other facility upgrades they all claimed that they were on the way, it didn't happen.

The simple fact is that CSU has a core of dedicated fans who are as fanatical as any in college football. Unfortunately that core is not big enough to compete in today's BCS level marketplace. For the majority of their fans the only game that matters in the CU game and even that hasn't mattered enough for them to sell their allotment of tickets.

In the glory years if they had had a decent, on campus stadium as you put it, things would have been different. Instead of attendance at or below 30k they might have reached 35k, still not enough to make and keep them competitive or to interest a major conference.
 
Why do we care if they fill it or not? If they build it, the game in Denver is dead. That alone is reason enough for us to be 100% behind this effort.
 
I think it is silly to think that CSU can NEVER get to where they claim to want to be. It will just take time. FoCo is a nice, growing city. New facilities and a good football team might be enough to get them regular attendance. If they can squirrel their way into a legit conference, then they have a good shot of gaining nice, regular support of their program.
 
Won't link to it because it's the DP - but Krieger has a column over there saying Gary Crowton plans to apply for the HC gig.
 
dio said:
I think it is silly to think that CSU can NEVER get to where they claim to want to be. It will just take time. FoCo is a nice, growing city. New facilities and a good football team might be enough to get them regular attendance. If they can squirrel their way into a legit conference, then they have a good shot of gaining nice, regular support of their program.
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Yeah, I'd say in about 2250
 
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