Discussion in 'Colorado Basketball Message Board' started by sackman, Feb 5, 2010.
Does this scenario sound familiar?
I vote for an extension. I'm all about HOPE.
If you want an example of being burned to the ground I say look at Patton did to CU hoops. Bzdelik has done a good job rebuilding so far. We are very competitive in almost all of the loses. I thought it would take 4-5 years to get things back on track for basketball. Would not be against an extension. Think he has the right system for CU basketball.
Even if the results aren't there just yet....I am adamant that he is the right guy for the job...plus, noone is going to argue that he doesn't know what he's doing or how to coach BBal (like many might do for our other "coach")l, it's only a matter of time & resources for him.
kind of gun shy on the subject of extensions but the f job Ricardo did on CU hoops with the 9 player senior class that gagged it's way out of the tournament and somehow still had Andy Osborne it's best 3 point shooter playing post....and attrition of the 3 seven footers*/Bay-Silas-Vanwright "greatest class ever" was far more crushing than "the scandal", imo.
i'm not a total RP hater though i'd still like to know what O we ran in those 10 years.
*when OU, OSU, Tulsa and ORU don't offer a kid from small-town Oklahoma.....that should throw up red lights.
His practices were laughable as well. I thought I was watching a highschool team.
Even with courtside seats for years I couldn't tell you either.
I wouldn't be against it. Waiting another year may be a smarter move though.
If he is extended this year then announcing it during the ground breaking ceremony for the practice facility would be a good idea. Go with the whole 'moving forward' theme.
you and me both bro.
I've got no problem with extending him if he says it will help him on the recruiting front. Contract runs for 2 more seasons after this year and as far as I'm concerned Coach B can be our men's basketball coach for as long as he wants.
Tongue firmly planted in cheek, but Bohn should tell him he won't talk extension until after he lands a couple quality big men in the spring. :smile2:
1. How many years does he have left on his contract?
2. Has he indicated any desire to look around if he isn't extended?
3. Is his contract situation somehow hurting us in recruiting?
If no, I say wait. I'm not AT ALL opposed to extending Bz (best thing to happen to CU hoops in my lifetime, I hope), but one lesson learned for the Hawk debacle is not to go around handing out extensions willy nilly...
i'm just tired of being a joke in both revenue sports. straight up. i like BZ, pretty down on Hawk at this point. almost nothing that comes out of DH's mouth that doesn't make me want to set myself on fire.
Funny, because I remember a lot of the same kinds of comments leading up to when we extended Hawk. Neither coach had proven anything at all. If we extend Bzdelik now, we'd be doing almost exactly the same thing we did when we extended Hawk.
The difference is...with the football program, we had a ton to lose (which, by the way, seems completely lost). With basketball, we have nothing to lose (and a ton to gain). I say....extend JB....
I would see how the season finishes out and if we can win a couple away games and possibly make a little run in the Big XII tourney. Don't have any embarrassing losses and finish on a high note. Then extend him. We have only been blown out once this season against Tulsa. Am I right about that? That is one thing our football team hasn't been able to say under Hawk. We have had embarrassing blow out losses in every season. For our basketball team to compete in almost every game against some very good teams is extremely impressive.
The Texas game was never really close, and according to CSU fans the Buffs were blown out at Moby. But other than that, ya just Tulsa. Another thing about Bzz's teams is they improve as the season goes on. I know last season wasn't pretty, but they were at least competitive towards the end. His first team with Roby and Hall were night and day difference from the beginning to end of season.
You have GOT to be kidding me. People are still posting ignorant comments that Patton hurt our program?
He "burned the program to the ground"? Which program is that? Oh wait - the one he built with no help from the Athletic Department!
Okay, first off he inherited a program that sucked. We're not talking one year in the basement (his last year), we're talking 20 years as the worst team in the Big 8. The 3 coaches before him had to leave - not their choice - inside 4-5 years each. They had successful resumes but failed here.
Second, he brought the team to mediocrity. See the above comments about how we sucked before him. NBA draft picks. NCAA tourney bids. You think that stuff happens as if by magic? Were you born in like, this century?
Third, by the time he had 10 years under his belt it was time for him to leave. Any CU fan not in a coma got that. But Mike Bohn kept him here through year 11. I'm not defending Patton - he needed to leave. But isn't it his boss's responsibility to figure that out? We saved some money (although I would debate that we lost money from lack of asses in the seats), yet had to suffer through not one, but three basement finishes. Gee thanks, Mike!
(Yes, please tell me how we didn't have that extra $800k to get an early start on the next coach, after paying off Barnett almost 4 times that amount 1 year before that.)
It still infuriates me that CU fans can't have the dignity to say to Patton, "thanks for raising our expectations and showing us that some quality players actually are willing to come here. Good luck in your next gig."
Nope - we're all about the National Titles over here in CU MBB land. And reading at a 4th grade level.
Patton was an awful coach. I don't even feel like rehashing this argument from when he was fired. Sorry when he announced at media day he wasn't returning after the season. Oh and his 24-53 record at Northern Illinois shows his continued greatness as a coach. Guess you can blame the program again.
Extend him... but make sure he has a reasonable buyout :smile2:
Agree, I like Buzz. I think he will have much more succes than Hack. He knows how to coach. Some good recruiting and CU can be a BBall power.
:yeahthat: * 1000
I'm entirely with Bisonic on this one. Yes, RP was a horrible game-coach, and he didn't know bball really. However, he did a great job for CU hoops, and it's sad that many fans can't recognize what he accomplished. Was he great, no. Was he good for CU, yes.
Do NOT extend Bz. I love coach, and I think he's gotten things going well. However, I hate this entire notion of extending coaches based on mediocre accomplishments, just to ensure they don't leave. Nothing is guaranteed - he can leave anytime he wants. Wait until the end of the year, and if this season showed very good progress, then yes. If we don't land a legit big, and the season ends sourly, then wait until after next season.
Patton 184-160 (.535)
Bzdelic 32-53 (.376)
Totally with you and Bisonic, yes RP was not good at X-O, and his tenure here had run its course, but the way some here are so quick to stomp on his legacy is deplorable.
What RP WAS, was the best recruiter this god awful program has ever had, and I'm including what I've seen so far from Bzz.
Yes, the program was not in good shape when RP left, but that's what happens when you let a coach become a lame duck. That was as much Bohn's fault for taking the coward's way out and simply letting RP's contract run out without being decisive or proactive.
There's no doubt that Bz has the team playing a more aesthically pleasing brand of basketball, but the bottom line is results, and Bz's results haven't been any better than RP's to this point......in fact they've been worse. I'm not giving up on Bz yet and am certainly as hopeful as many others about the future, but Bz needs to show me a bit more before he has my full support. I think it's pretty funny that so many people are ready to give Bz parades and contract extensions simply because the team isn't *quite* as awful as it has been the last few years.
patton couldnt coach hagan's wet dream's:thumbsup:
Gee, how do I respond without disrespecting guys I respect? (Hagan, Bzdelik, Patton.)
First Hagan is a football guy. He's never recruited a single basketball player, ever.
So speaking of recruiting BB players, here's the order of accomplishment:
4. Your mama, because she cleaned up after Hagan's wet dream. With her slurpy lips.
Patton was a terrific recruiter. I don't think anybody would dispute that. Players didn't get better playing for him, though. They usually got worse.
Terrific? That's quite a statement.
Patton did a good job with very, very little support. But to call his recruiting "terrific" is a bit over the top imo. He landed some very good kids, but didn't surround him with anything imo. His overall work recruiting-wise was very inconsistent. I always felt he was a "Terrific" assistant coach, not a HC.
I do respect Bisonic's opinion. Especially when it comes to MBB. I don't always agree, but he knows a lot more than I do about basketball.
I'll stop my little tantrum with these few comments.
Patton's recruiting was spotty, for sure. For every guy he brought in with an exciting upside, there were one or two others that you scratched your head and said, "what did you see in this kid?"
However every now and then he would bring in the Roby's, Boyce's, Pelle's, Mirandais, guys like that where you wondered how he could be the only guy that saw what they'd turn into.
And it's not trivial that Patton ran the program with very high standards. He wasn't a perfect guy, kinda grumpy and harsh at times, but he didn't cheat and he booted guys if they were hurting the program, no matter how talented. (Tyrone Manlove comes to mind - that guy could have played NBA ball.)
Turning the page, this recruiting year is huge for Jeff. He absolutely must get inside help, as everyone knows.
For one thing, I just don't see any of the guys on the current roster turning into solid inside players in this league. And honestly I'm not sure he recruited them to be. He's got this thing about big guys shooting from the outside. While he may prove me wrong, most games are won on the inside. If Jeff thinks he can change that, I say good luck while I have my doubts.
For another, next year is his 4th year. Between years 4 and 5 the magic wears off with new coaches that are losing. We're obviously seeing that with Hawkins, but that's always been true with CU MBB. You only can play 5 guys at a time in basketball, so if you can assemble 5 winning players in 4 years, folks begin to wonder if we're wasting our time.
For Jeff, he needs to find a way to get 2 new big men on this roster for next year. I'm not up on the Scholly situation but I think it's only 1 for sure? Then maybe it comes down to attrition.
The punch line: Bzdelik was very quick to press the Eject button on Patton guys that wouldn't fit into his system. What about Bzdelik guys that aren't fitting into the system? Perhaps some "forced attrition" is in order to free up one or two more schol's? We'll obviously have more schol's after next season, but without some seriously help in year 4, we might not all have the stomach for a year 5 under Jeff.
I agree, but Roby and Pelle weren't complete unknowns. Both were top 100 players according to some services. These days Rivals and Scout dominate the recruiting landscape, but there used to be more. Some of those had identified both as top guys. I'm not sure about Boyce (did he get him to CU or was it more Harrington?...)
I thought Patton was a great recruiter. Yes, he had some guys that were horrible, but overall, I thought he was great. He got athletic guys that just knew how to play, because he didn't know how to develop them (he had no system he was looking for players to fit in). He almost got Q Richardson, and Larry O'Bannon.
Why are you saying Hagan in terms of bball recruiting? Who did he help with?
Separate names with a comma.