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GAME THREAD: 2/15 9 PM on Pac 12 Network: Beating the Cougars tonight

This will be the game where if we win 2 out of our last 3 regular season games and make a good run in the conference tourney, we’ll look back and say “here’s where we blew it.”

Could be very frustrating, but with a team so young these kind of things happen, unfortunately for us.
 
Dom Collier had a terrible game! everybody has a bad game or two. What pisses me off more than anything is that he is a senior and consistently makes bad decisions in crucial moments. I don't think that is a coaching issue, it's a Dom issue
 
Sykobuff said:
King still rebounds, but he's a sr who seems to lack aggressiveness down the stretch. Isn't he a guy who could/should be averaging 17 to 20 ppg?
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King rebounds and plays defense (against bigger players) consistently! Maybe on planet mars he could do that and average 17-20.
 
Sykobuff said:
King still rebounds, but he's a sr who seems to lack aggressiveness down the stretch. Isn't he a guy who could/should be averaging 17 to 20 ppg?
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There are only 47 guys in the nation averaging over 20 ppg. In Tad's tenure, only three times has someone scored that much for the Buffs - Derrick White last year (18.1), Ski in '14 (17.2) and Alec Burks in '10 (20.5). And Ski's deserves a bit of an asterisk considering he had the 43 point USC game and went full chucker when the season was going down the tubes.

King's 13.5 is right in line with what should have been expected - especially when he's either the 1a or 1b focus for a D.
 
Goose said:
There are only 47 guys in the nation averaging over 20 ppg. In Tad's tenure, only three times has someone scored that much for the Buffs - Derrick White last year (18.1), Ski in '14 (17.2) and Alec Burks in '10 (20.5). And Ski's deserves a bit of an asterisk considering he had the 43 point USC game and went full chucker when the season was going down the tubes.

King's 13.5 is right in line with what should have been expected - especially when he's either the 1a or 1b focus for a D.
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You make some good points, he averaged 13.6 as a sophmore, just think that number should be higher. He's certainly rebounding, playing defense.
 
Sykobuff said:
King still rebounds, but he's a sr who seems to lack aggressiveness down the stretch. Isn't he a guy who could/should be averaging 17 to 20 ppg?
Click to expand...

Lack aggressiveness? He's 6'5" and pulled 11 boards. That is clearly not a lack of aggressiveness.
 
Pbuffdiddy said:
Dom Collier had a terrible game! everybody has a bad game or two. What pisses me off more than anything is that he is a senior and consistently makes bad decisions in crucial moments. I don't think that is a coaching issue, it's a Dom issue
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It was a coaching issue. On a night where Dom is having an historically bad game, Tad chose to keep him in there when he clearly had other options.

FFS give yourself(and us) a chance.
 
Pbuffdiddy said:
King rebounds and plays defense (against bigger players) consistently! Maybe on planet mars he could do that and average 17-20.
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He also had possession of the ball with zero pressure and dribbled off his foot into the backcourt at a critical point in the game. Against Call he missed the two technicals then turned it over on the inbound. I’m not pointing that out to rip him. Just that our seniors need to step up.
 
DBT said:
He also had possession of the ball with zero pressure and dribbled off his foot into the backcourt at a critical point in the game. Against Call he missed the two technicals then turned it over on the inbound. I’m not pointing that out to rip him. Just that our seniors need to step up.
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The difference between king and Collier is that the good outweighs the bad, from King. Idk that I can say the same for collier
 
DBT said:
He also had possession of the ball with zero pressure and dribbled off his foot into the backcourt at a critical point in the game. Against Call he missed the two technicals then turned it over on the inbound. I’m not pointing that out to rip him. Just that our seniors need to step up.
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Yes.

But people are getting on him for physical errors, not effort errors. He missed a couple shots. He dribbled a ball off his foot. How about the fact that he came out of nowhere to snag on offensive rebound that avoided a WSU fast break the other direction right before he dribbled that ball off his foot?

King didn't have his best game. He's a bit off lately. But as long as that doesn't impact his rebounding and hustle, as long as he's still showing defensive effort and a willingness to take defensive assignments for the team where he's physically overmatched, then give the guy a ****ing break. There are other guys who deserve to be targeted by fans. Not King.
 
cu62nu36 said:
Deleon is out for the rest of the season. Tad had Bey and Namon still available. Either would have been better.
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I know deleon is out! And I was watching the game, but I guess I didn't notice that namon and bey were on the bench at the end of the game. So you have a point.
 
Buffnik said:
Yes.

But people are getting on him for physical errors, not effort errors. He missed a couple shots. He dribbled a ball off his foot. How about the fact that he came out of nowhere to snag on offensive rebound that avoided a WSU fast break the other direction right before he dribbled that ball off his foot?

King didn't have his best game. He's a bit off lately. But as long as that doesn't impact his rebounding and hustle, as long as he's still showing defensive effort and a willingness to take defensive assignments for the team where he's physically overmatched, then give the guy a ****ing break. There are other guys who deserve to be targeted by fans. Not King.
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I’m certainly a fan of him and not targeting. Just pointing out that he’s not without fault. I think this whole GK discussion started as a comparison to Dom and there is no comparison. Dom is a senior sixth man. GK is a senior starter.
 
DBT said:
I’m certainly a fan of him and not targeting. Just pointing out that he’s not without fault. I think this whole GK discussion started as a comparison to Dom and there is no comparison. Dom is a senior sixth man. GK is a senior starter.
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Saying that we need more scoring aggression and production from King is a legitimate opinion. Saying that he needs to shoot better than he has lately is a valid thing. Saying that he still makes some freshman mistakes as a 5th year senior and that's not acceptable is valid.

Funny thing about the scoring aggression is that for years the book on King that the basketball insiders made fun of was a running bet over how long it would take him before he entered the game to launch a shot. He's worked very hard to be a team player instead of being a gunner with no conscience. Some nights, particularly in some segments, we need gunner King back. I think that's where Tad has to pull him aside, tell him to take over, and run a play for him out of a timeout.
 
DBT said:
I’m certainly a fan of him and not targeting. Just pointing out that he’s not without fault. I think this whole GK discussion started as a comparison to Dom and there is no comparison. Dom is a senior sixth man. GK is a senior starter.
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Dom was a highly regarded recruit , unlike gk. gk was the most improved player as a rs sophomore, maybe gk hit his ceiling then. But at least, he hasn't regressed.
Am I the only one who tenses up when Dom dribbles the basketball?
 
Buffnik said:
Yes.

But people are getting on him for physical errors, not effort errors. He missed a couple shots. He dribbled a ball off his foot. How about the fact that he came out of nowhere to snag on offensive rebound that avoided a WSU fast break the other direction right before he dribbled that ball off his foot?

King didn't have his best game. He's a bit off lately. But as long as that doesn't impact his rebounding and hustle, as long as he's still showing defensive effort and a willingness to take defensive assignments for the team where he's physically overmatched, then give the guy a ****ing break. There are other guys who deserve to be targeted by fans. Not King.
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Nobody is targeting him, I know he rebounds and plays tough defense often against much bigger guys. But imho, I think he's a better scorer than he has shown and he lacks aggressiveness on the offensive side at times when they need him.
 
Sykobuff said:
Nobody is targeting him, I know he rebounds and plays tough defense often against much bigger guys. But imho, I think he's a better scorer than he has shown and he lacks aggressiveness on the offensive side at times when they need him.
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Your expectations for George's offensive game are quite frankly out of whack. I love what he does for this team, because even when his shot isn't falling, he's working his ass off on the glass and defensively. He simply isn't a go to primary scorer. When he gets hot from the outside, he can put up a big number, but if you're looking for him to be your go to guy consistently, you're going to be in trouble. Even with last nights crap fest, this team has exceeded my expectations because Kin has become that alpha scorer. I was expecting worse things this year because George was supposed to be "the guy" on offense.
 
torerobuff said:
Your expectations for George's offensive game are quite frankly out of whack. I love what he does for this team, because even when his shot isn't falling, he's working his ass off on the glass and defensively. He simply isn't a go to primary scorer. When he gets hot from the outside, he can put up a big number, but if you're looking for him to be your go to guy consistently, you're going to be in trouble. Even with last nights crap fest, this team has exceeded my expectations because Kin has become that alpha scorer. I was expecting worse things this year because George was supposed to be "the guy" on offense.
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Out of whack. Okay. I must be on mushrooms thinking a guy who averaged 13.6 as a sophomore could up that to 17pg his sr year.

I'm clearly wrong, back to listening to bill walton singing grateful dead tunes.
 
Sykobuff said:
Out of whack. Okay. I must be on mushrooms thinking a guy who averaged 13.6 as a sophomore could up that to 17pg his sr year.

I'm clearly wrong, back to listening to bill walton singing grateful dead tunes.
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As Goose pointed out, Tad's system rarely allows for one guy to average that many points.

Reminded me of the old joke that Dean Smith was the only man who was ever able to hold Michael Jordan under 20 points.
(MJ averaged 17.7 at UNC.)
 
Sykobuff said:
Out of whack. Okay. I must be on mushrooms thinking a guy who averaged 13.6 as a sophomore could up that to 17pg his sr year.

I'm clearly wrong, back to listening to bill walton singing grateful dead tunes.
Click to expand...

Well, you clearly are. The 13.6 ppg guy is who he is. Linear growth in scoring is a poor assumption. Some guys do it, but it's ridiculous to say that everyone should do it.
 
torerobuff said:
Well, you clearly are. The 13.6 ppg guy is who he is. Linear growth in scoring is a poor assumption. Some guys do it, but it's ridiculous to say that everyone should do it.
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Yes, it would be ridiculous to say everyone should do it, which is not the case here.

I disagree on king but I've been wrong before.
 
King can put up some points sometimes but he's not what I'd call a pure scorer. Plays good D and can board for sure. Could be hitting a bit of a wall, he's asked to do a lot.
 
Uncle Luko said:
King can put up some points sometimes but he's not what I'd call a pure scorer. Plays good D and can board for sure. Could be hitting a bit of a wall, he's asked to do a lot.
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He's not actually a good defensive player. I didn't want to give that impression.

He's an exceptionally good defensive rebounder for his position.

He has lapses on defense, but has played harder this year and hasn't lost his guy anywhere near as often. Mostly, though, he's someone who better outscore the guy he's guarding. He's not the guy you put on the other team's top scorer. King's a positive to winning on that side because he is a versatile defender, helps control the defensive glass, and holds his man (usually a secondary option) in check for that guy's averages without fouling.
 
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