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Larry Scott Gets Contract Extension Through 2022

UCSD doesn't have D1 football and UC Davis is FCS. If they committed to building to FBS, the presidents would be on board with adding them. Scott and the ADs might go apoplectic, though, about media markets and diluting the recruiting grounds.

To your point - Both UC schools are R1 and would be well respected academic institutions with the presidents. UCSD is a large University in Southern California with a 1.2 billion $ endowment and a large and well-off alumni base. They went D1 in everything else...they actively debate building a football program and could if they wanted. It would take 5-10 years to be competitive. UC-D is a highly competitive FCS program. It would take them 5ish years to be competitive.

SDSU would be competitive from the get go, but the presidents would not like that they are a R2 research institution. ...however, a future SDSU vs. UCSD rivalry would amplify the SoCal TV market for college sports.

In all cases the goal would be a future investment to boost the California TV market...which should be our focus.
 
To your point - Both UC schools are R1 and would be well respected academic institutions with the presidents. UCSD is a large University in Southern California with a 1.2 billion $ endowment and a large and well-off alumni base. They went D1 in everything else...they actively debate building a football program and could if they wanted. It would take 5-10 years to be competitive. UC-D is a highly competitive FCS program. It would take them 5ish years to be competitive.

SDSU would be competitive from the get go, but the presidents would not like that they are a R2 research institution. ...however, a future SDSU vs. UCSD rivalry would amplify the SoCal TV market for college sports.

In all cases the goal would be a future investment to boost the California TV market...which should be our focus.

They're both AAU, too, iirc. And, yeah, both have big time endowments in the vault so they've got the resources to come up quickly. San Diego and Sacramento would be great cities to add, too. But I think it's too late in the game for them. Davis has a better shot and it wouldn't surprise me at all if Hawkins got them winning (he's had crazy good success outside of P5 and pro coaching). They might be building something there.

But, as you posted, I thought UCSD decided not to go to D1 in football when the students voted to go D1 in everything else? Doesn't that suggest that this isn't in the mission?
 
They're both AAU, too, iirc. And, yeah, both have big time endowments in the vault so they've got the resources to come up quickly. San Diego and Sacramento would be great cities to add, too. But I think it's too late in the game for them. Davis has a better shot and it wouldn't surprise me at all if Hawkins got them winning (he's had crazy good success outside of P5 and pro coaching). They might be building something there.

But, as you posted, I thought UCSD decided not to go to D1 in football when the students voted to go D1 in everything else? Doesn't that suggest that this isn't in the mission?
They did, but I think things would change if they were considering a Pac12 invite.
 
I just don't think adding California schools does much to add to the conference. We already have four schools there, so what markets do they really add? Plus, would saturate the recruiting in SoCal if we added two more California schools. I think KU would jump to the Pac 12 and Houston would take it in a heart beat.
 
maybe something as crazy as UH + Tulane (AAU & R1) if the Big 12 doesn't break up.
There is never anything crazy about the idea of adding Tulane to our conference. It's a brilliant idea and I support any and all attempts to do so.
 
There is never anything crazy about the idea of adding Tulane to our conference. It's a brilliant idea and I support any and all attempts to do so.
it's crazy because they don't add quality content. as we move into the cut-cord era, how many people are going to pay to watch the product Tulane brings in either revenue sport.

sure, fun destination, great academics.
 
I just don't think adding California schools does much to add to the conference. We already have four schools there, so what markets do they really add? Plus, would saturate the recruiting in SoCal if we added two more California schools. I think KU would jump to the Pac 12 and Houston would take it in a heart beat.

Au Contraire, I think Cal should be our biggest focus. Marketing 101: your biggest opportunity is always to up-sell the customers you already have; to expand the market within your current footprint.

California has a bigger customer footprint than the rest of the West combined, and I'd say the PAC12N reaches a small fraction of the people there currently. California has a population of 39M. Kansas has a population of 2.9M...and many of them are Mizzou fans living in Kansas City, Kansas!
 
We've got the entire west sewn up as is. The focus needs to be on central. We need more exposure and stronger fan bases. We need some of the Big 12 schools.
 
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it's crazy because they don't add quality content. as we move into the cut-cord era, how many people are going to pay to watch the product Tulane brings in either revenue sport.

sure, fun destination, great academics.
I don't think you understand. Tulane would be a great addition to the conference and there is no further discussion required in the subject.
 
So hold on, we can't penetrate the California market with USC, ucla, Stanford and cal and the solution to that problem is to add UC davis?

I would prefer UCSD and SDSU. Imagine the pressure on UCSD to get better if they were shellacked by SDSU every year; who probably has something like 1/2 the average SAT score. It would be so awesome for the conference if there was a rivalry in wealthy San Diego that matched USC/UCLA.
 
Houston seems like a no brainer. What's their downside?

New Mexico seems really meh. That state is poor as **** and isn't even increasing their population and their football team is historically awful.

UNLV seems promising if they just up the research and stuff. NHL team and NFL going there plus their entire state population is in Las Vegas so that seems like a plus.

SDSU needs to somehow merge their football team with UCSD's school. Perfect!
I'd agree with everything but the population is increasing quite a bit. At least where I live anyway, it gets bigger everyday. I used to be able to get to my job in about 18 minutes from my house. It's more like 35 or 40 now.
 
I'd agree with everything but the population is increasing quite a bit. At least where I live anyway, it gets bigger everyday. I used to be able to get to my job in about 18 minutes from my house. It's more like 35 or 40 now.

I was going off of the graph nik used in a post in the expansion thread. I suppose I could change my mind if long term things are looking up. New Mexico just seems like a really subpar addition. Doesn't bring us any decent recruiting grounds. BBall team is good I guess? It isn't Texas. Academics are decent I guess. shrug

Houston seems like the one we should target asap and then figure out a second school to go with them. Then go from there.
 
I agree and don't follow UNM at all really. Been to their stadiums a few times for games. The talent would definitely be an issue. It is limited to say the least. Very true as well that this is a basketball state. I grew up in Texas, quite different. Also I'd love to have Houston in the Pac, H-Town is loaded with talent every year.
 
UNM is not a good school. They do have some ball tradition and that's it imo. I hope they are not added...just my opinion.
 
Seems like a lot of CFO wannabes in this thread. I'm a fan. I'll let Larry Scott and the P-12 brain trust handle the finances. I like what he's done so far. I don't care if we aren't on DTV. I dropped DTV two years ago. My only gripe is a lack of skiing coverage. If they want to cover Olympic sports, cover Olympic sports. Skiing is an Olympic sport.


Speaking of that, wouldn't it be cool if Lindsay Vonn went to CU? I know she makes boatloads of money as a professional, but damn, the possibilities.
 
UNM is not a good school. They do have some ball tradition and that's it imo. I hope they are not added...just my opinion.

Well the academics aren't great, but they're R1, right? So, they're about as good as we can hope.

From nik's list, seems the only schools we'd want that are good with academics are either in P5 conferences already, lack a freaking football program (UCSD) or are Tulane or Rice. So we gotta dip into the R1 realm.
 
I think Scott has some quality but I thought more of him years back than now. Maybe he'll fix that, I have no idea.
 
Seems like a lot of CFO wannabes in this thread. I'm a fan. I'll let Larry Scott and the P-12 brain trust handle the finances. I like what he's done so far. I don't care if we aren't on DTV. I dropped DTV two years ago. My only gripe is a lack of skiing coverage. If they want to cover Olympic sports, cover Olympic sports. Skiing is an Olympic sport.


Speaking of that, wouldn't it be cool if Lindsay Vonn went to CU? I know she makes boatloads of money as a professional, but damn, the possibilities.
I don't really care about DTV either, but as a fan I do care about losing good coaches taking lateral moves and replacing them with guys who really didn't have many options, in part, because we are falling way behind other conferences in revenue.

Places like Oregon can bridge that gap with sugar daddy donors which we don't have.

It doesn't take a CFO wannabe to see the problem CU is facing.
 
Well the academics aren't great, but they're R1, right? So, they're about as good as we can hope.

From nik's list, seems the only schools we'd want that are good with academics are either in P5 conferences already, lack a freaking football program (UCSD) or are Tulane or Rice. So we gotta dip into the R1 realm.

Also hurts that while 4 Texas schools went to R1 with the 2016 ranks (evaluation through 2015), they were the wrong schools for us. If SMU had made it to R1, for example, I think there'd be a strong case to be made for SMU/Houston to make a Pac-16. Hard to say no to the Dallas and Houston markets and recruiting grounds.

One measure of academics that is probably more important to the presidents/chancellors than the Carnegie Classification of research intensity (R1, R2, etc.) is the ARWU ranking. That's the Academic Ranking of World Universities which comes out of China and determines a lot in terms of the number of applications that come from Asia. It was cited as a key measure the Pac-12 and Big Ten were using the last time I looked at this (back when CU split from the Big 12).

Here's some data from the 2016 ARWU global ranks:

Current Pac-12
2. Stanford
3. Cal
12. UCLA
15. Washington
38. Colorado
49. USC
100. Utah
101-150. Arizona State
101-150. Arizona
151-200. Oregon State
301-400. Oregon
401-500. Washington State

7 schools among the Top 100 universities in the world is a big damn deal for the Pac-12. And it was a major reason why CU and UU were added.

So, where on the list are some of the schools we've been talking about?

14. UCSD (if only they had a football program)
44. Texas
72. Rice
75. UC Davis (if only they were FBS instead of FCS)
101-150. Texas A&M
151-200. Hawaii
201-300. CSU
201-300. Nebraska
201-300. New Mexico
201-300. Houston
201-300. Kansas
401-500. BYU
401-500. San Diego State
401-500. Texas Tech
401-500. Utah State
unranked. Tulane (301-400 in 2015)
unranked. Oklahoma (401-500 in 2015)
unranked. Oklahoma State (401-500 in 2015)
unranked. Kansas State (401-500 in 2015)
unranked. Nevada (401-500 in 2011, unranked since)
unranked. SMU (401-500 in 2013, unranked since)
unranked. Baylor (never ranked)
unranked. TCU (never ranked)
not in database. UNLV
not in database. Boise State

http://www.shanghairanking.com/ARWU2016.html

So, here's the academic profile on the 3 categories the presidents/chancellors will care about for the universities we have mentioned for Pac-12 expansion:

SchoolARWUCarnegieAAU
Air ForceunrankedR3no
BaylorunrankedR2no
Boise Stateunranked R3no
BYUunrankedR2no
Colorado State201-300R1no
Hawaii151-200R1no
Houston201-300R1no
Kansas201-300R1yes
Kansas StateunrankedR1no
Nebraska201-300R1no
New Mexico201-300R1no
NevadaunrankedR2no
Notre Dame201-300R1no
OklahomaunrankedR1no
Oklahoma StateunrankedR2no
Rice72R1yes
San Diego State401-500R2no
SMUunrankedR2no
Texas44R1yes
Texas A&M101-150R1yes
Texas ChristianunrankedR2no
Texas Tech401-500R1no
TulaneunrankedR1yes
UC Davis75R1yes
UC San Diego14R1yes
UNLVunrankedR2no
Utah StateunrankedR2no
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

From the standpoint of the presidents/chancellors, the 2 universities they'd do backflips over to go to a Pac-14 would be Texas & Rice. Larry Scott and the Athletic Directors would also be very cool with that since it would bring huge markets in the bargain (though they'd argue for Houston over Rice as a compromise on academics vs athletics).

After that, it gets very sketchy. No one really has it all going on in regard to academics, market and athletics. Compromises would have to be made. And history shows us that there's only so far the presidents/chancellors are willing to compromise. They voted down an invite to the combo of Oklahoma & Oklahoma State. Part of that, per rumors, is that they didn't believe it would be accepted but that the Pac-12 was only being used for leverage. But there were also whispers that Oklahoma is a compromise they'd be willing to make (justifiably good enough on academics), but Oklahoma State was a non-starter.

I think that points to any school needing to have at least 1/3 of these measures on the academic side to be a real candidate for the academics. And I think that "1" is a minimum standard of being R1. Then, having AAU membership or being Top 100 ARWU is a huge bonus to the candidacy. That, I believe, is the backdrop to Larry Scott's efforts.
 
Also hurts that while 4 Texas schools went to R1 with the 2016 ranks (evaluation through 2015), they were the wrong schools for us. If SMU had made it to R1, for example, I think there'd be a strong case to be made for SMU/Houston to make a Pac-16. Hard to say no to the Dallas and Houston markets and recruiting grounds.

One measure of academics that is probably more important to the presidents/chancellors than the Carnegie Classification of research intensity (R1, R2, etc.) is the ARWU ranking. That's the Academic Ranking of World Universities which comes out of China and determines a lot in terms of the number of applications that come from Asia. It was cited as a key measure the Pac-12 and Big Ten were using the last time I looked at this (back when CU split from the Big 12).

Here's some data from the 2016 ARWU global ranks:

Current Pac-12
2. Stanford
3. Cal
12. UCLA
15. Washington
38. Colorado
49. USC
100. Utah
101-150. Arizona State
101-150. Arizona
151-200. Oregon State
301-400. Oregon
401-500. Washington State

7 schools among the Top 100 universities in the world is a big damn deal for the Pac-12. And it was a major reason why CU and UU were added.

So, where on the list are some of the schools we've been talking about?

14. UCSD (if only they had a football program)
44. Texas
72. Rice
75. UC Davis (if only they were FBS instead of FCS)
101-150. Texas A&M
151-200. Hawaii
201-300. CSU
201-300. Nebraska
201-300. New Mexico
201-300. Houston
201-300. Kansas
401-500. BYU
401-500. San Diego State
401-500. Texas Tech
401-500. Utah State
unranked. Tulane (301-400 in 2015)
unranked. Oklahoma (401-500 in 2015)
unranked. Oklahoma State (401-500 in 2015)
unranked. Kansas State (401-500 in 2015)
unranked. Nevada (401-500 in 2011, unranked since)
unranked. SMU (401-500 in 2013, unranked since)
unranked. Baylor (never ranked)
unranked. TCU (never ranked)
not in database. UNLV
not in database. Boise State

http://www.shanghairanking.com/ARWU2016.html

So, here's the academic profile on the 3 categories the presidents/chancellors will care about for the universities we have mentioned for Pac-12 expansion:

SchoolARWUCarnegieAAU
Air ForceunrankedR3no
BaylorunrankedR2no
Boise Stateunranked R3no
BYUunrankedR2no
Colorado State201-300R1no
Hawaii151-200R1no
Houston201-300R1no
Kansas201-300R1yes
Kansas StateunrankedR1no
Nebraska201-300R1no
New Mexico201-300R1no
NevadaunrankedR2no
Notre Dame201-300R1no
OklahomaunrankedR1no
Oklahoma StateunrankedR2no
Rice72R1yes
San Diego State401-500R2no
SMUunrankedR2no
Texas44R1yes
Texas A&M101-150R1yes
Texas ChristianunrankedR2no
Texas Tech401-500R1no
TulaneunrankedR1yes
UC Davis75R1yes
UC San Diego14R1yes
UNLVunrankedR2no
Utah StateunrankedR2no
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
From the standpoint of the presidents/chancellors, the 2 universities they'd do backflips over to go to a Pac-14 would be Texas & Rice. Larry Scott and the Athletic Directors would also be very cool with that since it would bring huge markets in the bargain (though they'd argue for Houston over Rice as a compromise on academics vs athletics).

After that, it gets very sketchy. No one really has it all going on in regard to academics, market and athletics. Compromises would have to be made. And history shows us that there's only so far the presidents/chancellors are willing to compromise. They voted down an invite to the combo of Oklahoma & Oklahoma State. Part of that, per rumors, is that they didn't believe it would be accepted but that the Pac-12 was only being used for leverage. But there were also whispers that Oklahoma is a compromise they'd be willing to make (justifiably good enough on academics), but Oklahoma State was a non-starter.

I think that points to any school needing to have at least 1/3 of these measures on the academic side to be a real candidate for the academics. And I think that "1" is a minimum standard of being R1. Then, having AAU membership or being Top 100 ARWU is a huge bonus to the candidacy. That, I believe, is the backdrop to Larry Scott's efforts.
Damn Nik, you bored this weekend? Ha ha, thanks for the info.
 
We have to expand! Because not doing so means certain doom for us and the conference. Please don't ask me why.

Signed- you know who.
 
Pretty sure there are 3-4 threads here discussing why expanding makes sense and moreso, why getting on DTV is a necessity. By all means, though, keep your head buried in the sand and keep telling yourself the PAC 12, and specifically CU, are perfectly fine where they're at.
 
We have to expand! Because not doing so means certain doom for us and the conference. Please don't ask me why.

Signed- you know who.

Going above 12 is a tricky proposition. 12 made a ton of sense because it was a requirement to have a football championship game and there's a lot of money with that.

But 14? It's still hard for me to wrap my head around why the SEC, B1G and ACC went to 14 teams. It's crappy for scheduling and doesn't gain you a high value national game like the football championship did. It also makes your basketball tournament weird with the way byes are structured.

14 only makes sense for media market considerations. It doesn't look like anything the Pac-12 could do to go to 14 makes sense for media footprint expansion unless it takes us into Texas.

However, 16 does make sense from a scheduling standpoint. And it could become valuable in the same way was if it brings a semi-final round to the conference football championship (those 2 semi games would be worth a lot). For basketball, it eliminates all byes in the conference tournament and that's a very good thing from a financial perspective since byes are nothing more than dead money empty slots. So 16 does increase the pie in a natural way without expanding footprint.

But I don't think that you can cut things 16 ways instead of 12 ways while making more money in the bargain unless you expand the footprint. A Pac-14 or even a Pac-16 without the state of Texas is dead on arrival. I've tried to figure out how it can work without that, but it's necessary.

I believe we need UT. And to do it, we're going to need to move away from equal revenue sharing. Frankly, I'm not opposed to that as long as it isn't fixed. Reward teams for success. Bonuses for advancing in the conference tournaments. Bonuses for bowl & playoff participation. Bonuses for providing content (i.e., having more PACN broadcasted sports). Bonuses for tv ratings of your institution's games, including getting picked up for ESPN and FOX broadcasts. I'm all for sharing, but there should also be a component of "you eat what you kill".

The move has to be to go after UT and OU, with some mix of KU, KSU, UH, TTU and OSU for the other 2 teams. UT/TTU + OU/OSU would probably be our most likely scenario to pull off since no other conference is positioned to offer that without having to expand to an ungainly 18 teams. Personally, I think the strongest would be UT, TTU, OU & KSU but I doubt that would happen.

Edit for my ideal scenario:
Pac-16 - UT, TTU, OU, KSU
ACC - West Virginia & Notre Dame
Big Ten - Kansas & Iowa State
SEC - TCU & OSU
*Baylor is the one Big 12 team that gets left at the altar
 
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