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Peters and Akyazili Leaving (official)
- Thread starter Darth Snow
- Start date
You can recruit those 6' 8" post players. You can also end up in the NIT like CU did this year. I did not say sign a 7' 0" C, rather the elite Pac 12 teams have them, you need 6' 9"/6' 10' with decent skills in order to compete. I stand behind my comment - if you are relying on Tory Miller to lead your team inside for the season, you are at a disadvantage.
MinturnBuff
Active Member
I agree thats why i asked that... Wes is what you are describing if we are going to only look for a 6'10/7'0 who would do that. I do not understand how we cannot recruit bigs at a better level than we have shown. I mean even Wazzu has better bigs than us
Randy.Watson
Well-Known Member
Tad is an above average coach and below average recruiter.
He'll need to address this or we will continue to have serious attrition issues.
He'll need to address this or we will continue to have serious attrition issues.
CitizenKane
Well-Known Member
I actually said something like this a few years ago and now I have to say that I think Tad's recruiting is improving...or bringing in Bill Grier has made a difference. Peters, Brown and Siewert (The core of last years class) are all players. I think either Strating or Walton now have to be legit players to continue to call last years class a good one since we've lost the best freshman of that class..... but Tad did get him here. This years class, on paper, is better than last years....so again, recruiting seems to be improving.
I think the real question to ask now is whether CU banks one of the two scholarships that they now have available or whether they fill both immediately.
Randy.Watson
Well-Known Member
I'm not just talking about the talent level, but recruiting the kind of kid who is not going to flake out. You mentioned Peters as an example of Tad's recruiting acumen, but what good is the skilled player who won't even be here next year?
From transfers like Dustin Thomas, Hopkins, and Peters- to malcontents like XJ, Ski, and Peters, Tad needs to do a better job recruiting and developing players. He is a tremendous Xs and Os guy, but that is only one part of the equation.
BehindEnemyLines
beware the habu
I wish them both well wherever their journey takes them.
seattlebuff
Well-Known Member
This. All day long. We would kill for a Hawkinson or a Clifford type in this program. Along with dynamic PGs, it's another giant blind spot in Tad's recruiting. He loves a team full of wings.
We had a Hawkinson-type in the program. Or, more accurately, Wazzu had a Josh Scott-type in their program.
YngC
Well-Known Member
Clifford is awful.
Still don't get the Peters love. He wasn't close to a top 10 frosh in conference this year. He had potential but was pretty rough around the edges.
Every recruiting classes has been the turning point, until it wasn't.
Every recruiting classes has been the turning point, until it wasn't.
OsideBuff
Dimwitted ****
Bingo...he has whiffed on every major blue chip recruit......The Mayor was under the radar until the end....Scott was a Colorado kid...White was a Colorado kid....lost out on the game changer recruit....and lets face it.....anyone who watches the Buffs probably comes away with the following assessment:
--Sporadic, inconsistent play
--Lack of team Chemistry
--Poor shooting team
--Lots of turnovers
--Lack of cohesive offensive strategy
recruits watch...talk....if I can see this...so can they. He has been good for CU...but he is headed in the wroing direction. Unless Scwhartz can effectively replace White (don't see it)....and Bey can be a force inside....and Siewert makes huge strides....next year will be very rough....
Yeah, except for the fact that the stats don't back any of this up. Pretty much middle of the Pac-12 in every shooting and ball handling stat this year. For a team that was mediocre. Defensive and rebounding statistics suffered this season, which as has been widely hashed out on this board was primary reason for a disappointing year. How about last year, 2015-2016, when they led the league in both free throw and 3 point percentage. Last year they actually were pretty ****ty handling the ball, but you can make up for that by leading the conference in rebounding, which they did.
When the facts don't back your narrative, might as well just make **** up.
Namon Wright and Deleon Brown. But still, gotta bring in someone else.
Buffs Basketball Fan
Well-Known Member
Are you discounting D'Shawn? He is a guard isnt he?
With the way the program counts guards, D'Shawn and Bey may both be considered guards for us.
I think we still need a JuCo guard or two. We need a proven scorer that can get to the line
Medford M.
Well-Known Member
Have to think we get at least on of the Juco guards given the depth chart at this point.
seattlebuff
Well-Known Member
Clifford averaged 9.4 pts and 2.7 reb in 19 mpg.
Wes: 6.8 & 6.3 in 24 mpg
Tory: 5.6 & 4 in 15 mpg
So, Wes and Tory were better rebounders ... but Clifford actually had some low post skill. He would have played for us just as much as he played for WSU.
Amazing how with the Wazzu bigs being soooooooo much better and them also having a backcourt of Iroegbo, Flynn & Callison who all shot the 3 at better than 37% while having very positive A/T ratios... that CU was the better team this year. Tad must be one hell of a strategist to overcome such a talent gap.
You don't have to dig deep to find the discrepancies. Tory Miller averages 1.3 points per shot attempt, a decent clip.Clifford averages about 1.4 points per shot attempt. If Miller attempted as many shots as Clifford did, they would have the same amount of ppg. Now, 2.7 boards in 20 minutes is a bad clip, especially for a 7 footer like Clifford. That's .14 boards a minute. Now, if you look at Tory, he averages .25 boards a minute. So, if you put Tory at Clifford's minutes, he grabs 5 boards a game, and if you put him at the amount of shot attempts, they average almost the same amount of points. And that's not even going into defense or turnovers
Fantastic assessment! Sub-par guard play can be made up with rebounding!! Let's play five Centers at once, they will make up for poor ball handling - makes 100% sense!!! You can make the NIT when you lead the Conference in rebounding - that should be the new goal for Tad's team.
Or put it another way using KenPom's Four Factors that are most correlated to winning basketball:
eFG% | TOrate | OR% | FTrate | |
Tory Miller | 54.6% | 16.0 | 8.6% | 42.8% |
Conor Clifford | 59.0% | 21.4 | 3.7% | 20.0% |
Biggest thing with Miller this offseason is to work on his FTs. 50.0% was the killer for his numbers. As well as he shoots and as much as he gets to the line, if he can get that back up to the range of his frosh 75% or his soph 61.1%, his numbers go up a ton. More so, he developed a bigger tool kit on offense that added some finesse to his game, which was great. But in the process, his FTrate - as good as it was - was actually compromised. It caused his eFG% to increase from a frosh/soph performance of 47.0/46.0 (fantastic improvement!), but with that his FTrate dropped quite a bit from frosh/soph of 54.5/51.8. It also pulled him away from the basket more and took his OR% down from frosh/soph of 9.2/13.4.
Of note -- he also pretty much doubled his ARate from frosh/soph 3.3/2/4 to a junior year of 6.0. He became a much better passer in total -- reducing his TOrate considerably from a frosh/soph of 26.8/19.4.
Anyway -- Miller is a better basketball player than Clifford if your objective is to win basketball games. There's also a lot there which shows he is a developing basketball player who has improved considerably over his 3 years. Taken together, Miller isn't a bad bet at all to put this all together as a senior to deliver a very efficient season of playing winning basketball. Two main things he needs to fix: FT shooting and his Foul Rate -- he committed 6.4 fouls/ 40 minutes last season, which is probably the biggest thing holding him back.
I believe in Miller. I think people are looking in the wrong place for what CU's problems/ concerns are for next season. My biggest concern is that I don't believe we have a consistent, book it every night, #1 scoring option. We need to find that in the JUCO ranks, I believe.
King can be an excellent #2 from the wing. I believe Namon can be an excellent #3 from the off guard spot. I believe that Miller can get useful & efficient points with 4-6 plays a game run for him. I believe we have some other guys like Dom, Siewert and Brown who will give scoring like we saw on the best nights from guys like Talton and Thorne -- i.e., will give double digits in a minority of games when they are in a rhythm with their shot falling. But what we're missing is that primary ball handler who will break down a defense and get his every night. We need a guy like Copeland or Darrington badly.
(And I still believe that we could get surprisingly good production from our incoming freshmen + some useful FG% defense from Walton.)
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You sure seem like a shill for the program. You almost always shoot down suggestions about the ways in which the program can improve, unless it is pointing a finger at the fans or AD (but not Boyle and his assistants). If this is as good as it gets in year 8 of Boyle's regime, I again ask why buy season tickets as I have for the past 21 years?
Nope. I am a shill for the program. Unabashedly supportive of Tad and the job he has done. I'll criticize and I'm not shy about it, but in no way should that ever be confused for me not being 100% in support of Tad Boyle.
Will? He's a realist. He's a recent AAU coach who knows hoops from an informed outsider's perspective of CU in relation to other programs in D1. And he's trying to tell us that while Tad has certainly made some mistakes, the big picture is that Tad has CU punching above its weight class on a sustained basis. And that we're getting it at well below market value for a guy who can deliver those results in the way CU demands -- graduating his players & not getting a sniff of NCAA trouble.
After 21 years hanging with a program that usually didn't make the post-season, rarely made the NCAAs and has only seen one Sweet 16 in that period (when it had a local hero who became an NBA HOFer leading them), it seems crazy to me that you pick now to reach a level of frustration. I'd say to stay the course and let Tad keep building this thing as we watch RG give him more and more of what he needs.
I'd argue that eliminating attrition is the #1 job descriptor for a mid-tier P5 basketball coach.
Medford M.
Well-Known Member
CU's attrition isn't abnormal though. Thats kind of the point.