Two pull away in Buffs’ QB battle

[Sexton Hardcastle]

I think Cody has had more than his share of chances to prove himself, not only as a leader/captain, but as a winning Div. 1 QB.

He's not lacking in leadership skills/abiliities but he may be lacking in player skills and believe me, no matter how much his fellow players may respect him, they want a winner in that position on the field.

So you're slamming Hawkins for not winning enough in a rebuilding program? Please. :huh:

 

[Duff Man]

1. A QB's success, any QB's success is entirely dependant on the other players around him. If the O-line is not keeping the D off of him he has no chance to set up, read the D, step into, and make his pass following through. Last year with the O-line resembling a MASH unit we had no consistency and the QB's started each snap in panic mode, "get rid of the ball before I get killed" mode. This season with a deeper, more experienced O-line we should see a different look on O regardless of who the QB is. This same O-line will also make the running game more consistently effective further helping the QB's. If the recievers can step up and make some big catches that for the most part they did not make last year, the few chances they had to complete a pattern, the O should be very much improved.

Entirely dependent? I don't buy that at all. The very best QBs make the players around them better, they are not entirely dependent on having future pros at every position.

As far as laying major blame at the feet of the receivers, it goes both ways. I saw many opportunities where open receivers were missed last year. None of the QBs should get a pass for playing poorly.

There have been a number of very effective QBs who are not much taller than Cody. Drew Brees is only about an inch to an inch and a half taller and does pretty well. On the other hand the majority of NFL QBs are 6'3" to 6'6" so there is clearly and advantage.

A ridiculous comparison. Height is not what holds Cody back, it is his arm strength, pocket presence, and lack of mobility.

3. Hawk loves his kid but is also highly competitive and not dumb. He is going to play the QB that he thinks is going to give him the best chance to win. Despite his shortcomings (pun intended) Cody is not a bad option. He is not Sam Bradford, he is not Tim Tebow, but he is a decent Big XII quality QB. If Hansen steps up in the mental parts of the game he is clearly more gifted than Cody. As a Buffs fan I would love to see this happen because Hansen gives us more of a deep ball threat and his mobility adds significant problems for a D. He showed significant moxie stepping in as a true freshman behind a badly broken line. If he can develop an understanding of enough of the O to be effective I don't question that Hawk will truly consider handing him the reins.

Calling a guy "not a bad option" is not exactly a ringing endorsement.

5. It is amazing that coachs tend to be geniuses when they have healthy talent and idiots when they lack it. Helfrich will be looked at very different if we are averaging close to 5 yards a carry in the running game and completing passes on third down because the QBs are not running for their lives. With a healthy DS knocking LBs on their butts and D-coordinators afraid of Speedy turning hand-offs into TDs there will be room and opportunity for the passing game to succeed.

As has been discussed many times here over the last several months, the problems with the offense last year went beyond injuries and talent. Helfrich was heavily criticized because the offense lacked any sort of identity. It is one thing to be trying to execute a cohesive gameplan, but injuries, experience, and talent issues hinder that progress. It is quite another situation like last season where it seems you're just changing stuff (players, formations, etc.) on the fly from series to series and hoping something succeeds. Even Helfrich has admitted he made major mistakes last year.

 

[Sexton Hardcastle]

Entirely dependent? I don't buy that at all. The very best QBs make the players around them better, they are not entirely dependent on having future pros at every position.

I don't think anyone here is asking for future pro's at any position. I don't think it's too much to ask for our starters to be healthy.

And Cody isn't "The very best QB". Nobody is going to suggest he's going to play on Sunday's. So let's stop trying to use that measuring stick for Cody every time a QB argument comes up.

 

[Duff Man]

I don't think anyone here is asking for future pro's at any position. I don't think it's too much to ask for our starters to be healthy.

And Cody isn't "The very best QB". Nobody is going to suggest he's going to play on Sunday's. So let's stop trying to use that measuring stick for Cody every time a QB argument comes up.

Are we trying to win 9-10 games or 6-7 games? Average QB play does not win 10 games. I'm not advocating that we need a future first round pick at QB, I am advocating we need a guy who can hold his own against the top QBs in the conference.

 

[MtnBuff]

Helfrich was heavily criticized because the offense lacked any sort of identity. It is one thing to be trying to execute a cohesive gameplan, but injuries, experience, and talent issues hinder that progress. It is quite another situation like last season where it seems you're just changing stuff (players, formations, etc.) on the fly from series to series and hoping something succeeds. Even Helfrich has admitted he made major mistakes last year.

To judge Helfrich on last year with the combination of injuries, youth, and the holes in the talent is an exercise in futility. I am not saying that he is good, great, or even mediocre. I am saying that until he gets a chance to work with a full team blaming last years lack of success is ridiculous. Many of the changes he made were trying to keep things together in the face of challenges that were extraordinary. The offense had an identity, it was QBs running for their lives as O-linemen were being carried to the lockerroom for X-rays. This team is making major strides forward but realistically the talent is a work in progress. Last year we did not have the depth and experience to deal with a major disaster, we had a bunch of them.

Entirely dependent? I don't buy that at all. The very best QBs make the players around them better, they are not entirely dependent on having future pros at every position.

QBs are entirely dependant, last year the norm was for our QBs to be running for their lives before they even had a chance to set up. The running game rarely created situations where a QB could excell. The D's had the advantage way to often and could determine play. No QB is going to consistenly excell in third and long. No QB is going to excell without the time to do his job.

Even if everything is in place that does not guarantee success by the QB but QBs are not ever going to succeed without help. This year we should find out what we have at QB. The line is healthy, has some depth, and has some experience. I do not expect Cody or Hansen to be all-Big XII, I do expect them to perform at least on average for the league.

 

[SBG]

Comparing Brees, who almost broke Marino's single season NFL passing record, to Cody isn't fair. Very, very few QBs ever reach the elite position that he's in. Pick any great CU QB of the past 2 decades and none of them approach Brees either.

If Cody works on his release and makes them higher then I think he'll be fine. He's shown flashes of brilliance and had a lot of "WTF?" type of moments. He was also thrown into the fire on a team that didn't have any solid playmakers at WR or any other positions, for that matter, and expected to win.

That's what expected when you are the QB. You are expected to be that playmaker if your team lacks them. You are expected to be that playmaker even though your OL is suffering major problems and your LT is a converted TE that is lacking size, strength and experience (Solder will be a beast though) and your RT goes down halfway through the season. You are expected to be that playmaker even though your TEs have to help with the pass rush even though they've shown they can catch. You are expected to evade the pass rush even though your rushing attack is struggling and run blocking much easier than pass blocking. You are expected to beat dime and nickel coverages consistently due to the lack of a running game.

Our expectations for QB were too high. Cody is a good game manager and while he won't play on Sundays, he has shown he can win. Hansen has good athletic ability, but there is a reason why the coaching staff decided not to let him throw that often last year. Everyone here thought he was the best QB on the roster after he led us to a victory over the grand KSU. Ok, sure. Cody led us to a victory over a damn good OU squad. Both have potential and I'm looking forward to this year. With our team, our schedule and their experience both will have a chance to show how good they really are. No excuses, I expect solid results.

The coaching staff is feeling the pressure to put the best QB on the field. Whoever lines up against CSU, regardless of who it is I'll have faith that the staff is putting us in a position to win 10 games. Their jobs depend on it.

 

[CUwhit21]

My biggest problem with Cody is that he can't throw the deep ball. Pound it and launch it is more like pound it and throw a 5 yard out. Then add in the fact that half of his interceptions have come from deflections at the line of scrimmage and the fact that he has averaged over 1 turnover a game and it makes it hard for me to believe that we are suddenly going to be a different team this season.

I hope our O is ready for 8/9 man fronts week in/week out. Any DC with a pulse is going to bring his defense close to the line of scrimmage and force Cody to beat them.

 

[MtnBuff]

I'm not advocating that we need a future first round pick at QB, I am advocating we need a guy who can hold his own against the top QBs in the conference.

Don't disagree in any way. At the same time which QB in the league last year would have won 9-10 games on this team? I will tell you, ZERO. Which O-coordinator in the league would have won 9-10 games with this team? Same answer.

I am not going to criticize based on last year. I do expect significant improvement this year. Hawk has stated "10 wins" I don't know if we will reach that but we better get close. Hawk and his staff have made major steps. The talent is better at almost all positions. We have talent and depth at many positions, we are recruiting over the past three years at a level that will bring us to a truly competitive level.
Now is time to step up to the next level. Hawk and team do need to prove they can recruit and develop a top flight QB. We have proven that we can recruit OL but we still have to prove it on the DL and at WR.

I don't disagree with all of the critics, I just think in many cases it is premature and unrealistic. If we don't see significant improvement this year then I will be at the front of the line to criticize.

 

[Sexton Hardcastle]

My biggest problem with Cody is that he can't throw the deep ball. Pound it and launch it is more like pound it and throw a 5 yard out. Then add in the fact that half of his interceptions have come from deflections at the line of scrimmage and the fact that he has averaged over 1 turnover a game and it makes it hard for me to believe that we are suddenly going to be a different team this season.

I hope our O is ready for 8/9 man fronts week in/week out. Any DC with a pulse is going to bring his defense close to the line of scrimmage and force Cody to beat them.

Cody might not have a big time arm, but lets not try to think he can't throw at all. He can hit a 30 yarder with accuracy.

And the reason they were stacking the line was the fact we had no threat at WR. They doubled Josh Smith all season long. I think Simas and Simmons will force the DC to rethink stacking the line on Cody. Plus our OL is looking like they can hold their own this year.

 

[Junction]

Okay.

The fight song glasses are nice. I have a couple.

:nod: :smile2:

 

[MtnBuff]

Comparing Brees, who almost broke Marino's single season NFL passing record, to Cody isn't fair. Very, very few QBs ever reach the elite position that he's in. Pick any great CU QB of the past 2 decades and none of them approach Brees either.

I did not mean to give any impression that Cody is a future NFL player or even should be the starter this year if Hansen is ready. I only mentioned Brees because he is a great example to counter those who think that a QB has to be 6'5" to succeed. Cody does lack arm strength, his mobility is limited, and he does make unexplainable decisions, usually under great pressure. I also believe that he would be much better given some decent time to set up and run a play without getting his teeth knocked out, not great but better. I would take your statement and take it even further. How many teams in the Big XII have had a QB as good as Brees in the past two decades. His lack of height did not make him a failure. He still on the NFL level occasionally gets balls tips and misses seeing open guys. Even with that he succeeded on the college level and the pro level. My only point is that Cody deserves a chance to compete despite his physical limitations. If Hansen or some who is physically better can play better, more power to them but lets play the best we have and give them a real chance to do something.

 

[Duff Man]

:nod: :smile2:

:thumbsup:

 

[SBG]

The Big 12 last year had perhaps the best arsenal of QBs I've ever witnessed at the college level. Harrel, McCoy, Daniels, Reesing, Robinson (hating seeing a CO play for another team), Griffin at Baylor (guy is a freak), Ganz, Freeman (NFL potential written all over him) and Bradford.

4 of those quarterbacks are gone, but asking to be a top performer in the Big 12 last year almost required you to be a top round draft choice. That's too much too ask of any QB. This and especially the year after we'll be more realistic.

 

[CUwhit21]

Cody might not have a big time arm, but lets not try to think he can't throw at all. He can hit a 30 yarder with accuracy.

And the reason they were stacking the line was the fact we had no threat at WR. They doubled Josh Smith all season long. I think Simas and Simmons will force the DC to rethink stacking the line on Cody. Plus our OL is looking like they can hold their own this year.

Simmons has to qualify. And Cody has not shown that he can consistently throw that 30 yard pass with accuracy. He tends to loft the ball allowing the safeties or corners time to recover and make a play.

Teams will stack the box until Cody can show that he can make big passes on key downs.

 

[somebody]

Every team is different. Hopefully this one protects the QB and makes running lanes for the RBs. Cody and Tyler are being (and should be) evaluated with this team, not a team in the past.

 

[jjbuffs13]

After watching the scrimmage today (I am not going to talk about it) I think the coaching staff just has to put the best 11 guys on the field on offense, and the same on defense. Whoever those 11 may be could vary depending on what down it is (IE: double TE set on 3rd and 1, 3 or 4 WR's on a passing down...etc) and the same for defense. Altougth I hope that QB is not one of the positions that varies on down

At this point, sure I would love to see Hansen start and become the leader for this team for the next 3 years. I would love to see JFly and Simas act as Fitzgerald and Boldin did for the Cards. I would love to see DS and Speedy act like Tomlinson and Sproles. Is that going to happen? Well right now I dont know.

I just want to win and right now I dont care how we get those wins. If they are all on last second field goals thats fine with me. A win is a win, I dont care how we get it, I just want between 8-10 of them.

 

[Sexton Hardcastle]

Simmons has to qualify. And Cody has not shown that he can consistently throw that 30 yard pass with accuracy. He tends to loft the ball allowing the safeties or corners time to recover and make a play.

Teams will stack the box until Cody can show that he can make big passes on key downs.

And if he can't then we let Hansen step up. I'm not trying to say Cody is the only legit starter on the team, but right now it looks like he will be the starter to open up the season.

I still think last year was a sophomore slump. But he's got two years under his belt now. He should be smarter. Get it done Cody.

 

[buffs04]

Don't disagree in any way. At the same time which QB in the league last year would have won 9-10 games on this team? I will tell you, ZERO. Which -coordinator in the league would have won 9-10 games with this team? Same answer.

For the sake of argument I do not necessarily think this is true. Look at a team like Kansas - how much more talented have these guys been than us at positions other than QB the past few years?

QB does not do everything but to suggest them as unimportant to team success is a bit of a ridiculous position to take.

 

[MtnBuff]

QB does not do everything but to suggest them as unimportant to team success is a bit of a ridiculous position to take.

Absolutely not saying that QB is unimportant to team success. QB is still the most important position on the team. They handle the ball every play, have to make decisions before and during the play, are responsible for leading the team, and are the center of fan attention. I am saying that no matter how good a QB is if he is on his backside before he can execute a play frequently he is not going to be effective. KU did not have Texas or OU talent but they did have a stable, vetran O-line and a couple of playmakers to take the pressure off the QB. They also played a pretty weak OOC schedule and didn't have a lot of injuries.

QB play can and does make or break a team but with the problems we had last year I have a hard time believing any QB would have won more that 7-8 games.

 

[BlackNGold]

Dude. The kick beat CU. That kind of kick would beat most teams. It totally deflated our team. Most fans knew we were done after that FG.

DUUUDE . The is the most damning criticism you could make about Coach Hawkins....that is exactly the opposite of what he is always preaching. You are telling me the team quit because they fell behind by 2 points!!!

There was plenty of time left in the game...I have seen Buff teams in the past rally against adversity in the closing seconds to win.

 

[BuffsRising]

DUUUDE . The is the most damning criticism you could make about Coach Hawkins....that is exactly the opposite of what he is always preaching. You are telling me the team quit because they fell behind by 2 points!!!

There was plenty of time left in the game...I have seen Buff teams in the past rally against adversity in the closing seconds to win.

Nobody said they quit. But the Nebraska team strength was their front four, and our main weakness was our offensive line. Put us in a must-pass situation and we were toast.

And besides, on that drive after their fg cody made a great throw to Geer down the slot that was only stopped by a great play by the safety. That would have put us in fg range.

 

[BlackNGold]

Nobody said they quit. But the Nebraska team strength was their front four, and our main weakness was our offensive line. Put us in a must-pass situation and we were toast.

And besides, on that drive after their fg cody made a great throw to Geer down the slot that was only stopped by a great play by the safety. That would have put us in fg range.

According to Valdezj they were deflated by the kick and that ended the game...I don't know how to interpret that other than he is saying they quit.

 

[Sexton Hardcastle]

:lol:

 

[BuffNut]

My biggest problem with Cody is that he can't throw the deep ball. Pound it and launch it is more like pound it and throw a 5 yard out. Then add in the fact that half of his interceptions have come from deflections at the line of scrimmage and the fact that he has averaged over 1 turnover a game and it makes it hard for me to believe that we are suddenly going to be a different team this season.

I hope our O is ready for 8/9 man fronts week in/week out. Any DC with a pulse is going to bring his defense close to the line of scrimmage and force Cody to beat them.

IF Cody were to start, how could you not believe we would be a different team this season???

With a Healthier more experienced stronger OL the pocket would not collapse so quickly for the QB. If so then the DL would not close the gap so much thus alleviating the possibility of so many battted balls. Couple that with the work the QBs have been doing to throw over the lineman and it will get better.

The same impoved OL, and the QBs being more experienced should certainly improve the QBs decsions.

The increased experience of J-fly & McKnight, with the addition of Simas, Espinoza, and possibly 1 of the new guys should bolster the WR corps which allowed many interceptions last year to happen. If you rewatched the games you would see many passes put on the money by the QBs that better WRs woudl have turned in to TDs and not interceptions or stripped balls.

Do I even need to mention that if the OL improves, and all our underclassment RBs return with added experience (and less the freshmen jitters), that an improved running game could only help the passing game.


To say there is no reason to think we would be better is just ridiculous, but hey, I guess I am a sunshine pumper.

 

[buffsyko]

:lol:

Hey laughing boy, stop trying to quit and be a quitter...........:smile2:

 

[Sexton Hardcastle]

Hey laughing boy, stop trying to quit and be a quitter...........:smile2:

:thumbsup:

 

[buffaholic]

Woelk picks his QB:

http://www.buffzone.com/news/2009/apr/18/qb-race-even-but-heres-early-hansen-vote/?partner=RSS

The key is what do you call "even"? I think it's a positive that Hansen has shown enough improvement to be in a race at this point that is too close to call. Coaches cannot ignore the vector he is currently on in terms of his maturity.

Let's face it, the best QB in the BTN is a midget from KU and he's a hell of a playmaker. His feet and overall athleticism is a big factor and Hansen has the potential to be ALL that and more.

We've got lots of questions going into fall including OL play, WR play, DL play, who will emerge at the crowded positions of RB, TE, DB and LB..... None of these questions are even close to the importance of our QB position.

 

[Lt.Col.FrankSlade]

I disagree. The most important position on CU's offense is OL. There's a ton of talent there, but if they can't find a way to stay on the field, it won't matter who is playing QB.

It doesn't help that our offensive coaching staff is clueless as to just what kind of offense they want to run.

 

[Sexton Hardcastle]

I disagree. The most important position on CU's offense is OL. There's a ton of talent there, but if they can't find a way to stay on the field, it won't matter who is playing QB.

It doesn't help that our offensive coaching staff is clueless as to just what kind of offense they want to run.

That's my biggest problem with Hawk and staff. I don't know if they're feeding misinformation on the offense, or if they really don't know what they want to run. One thing is for sure in all of this, switching your offense from year to year is a bad idea.

 

[Lt.Col.FrankSlade]

That's my biggest problem with Hawk and staff. I don't know if they're feeding misinformation on the offense, or if they really don't know what they want to run. One thing is for sure in all of this, switching your offense from year to year is a bad idea.

I have zero coaching experience, but I do not understand why it is so difficult to establish a big time rushing attack. We are absolutely LOADED at RB and at OL -- and we still barely even attempt to run the ball.