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Calipari's violations and alleged transgressions have been well publicised, but i'm not part of the "we all" who knows whats going on behind the scenes at Duke. Could you please clarify? Is there reason, other than their success, to believe they've been doing it the wrong way?

Agreed. K is pretty old school like his mentor, and he definitely is pretty strict about the rules. Now, I definitely am not saying he's been a complete angel, and I'm sure there are a few players that do not like him. I also wouldn't be surprised if the FBI investigation reveals that Capel and some assistants did some dirty recruiting, although I'm inclined to think that Duke recruits via what Cal has accused them of, as opposed to paying players directly.

People hate Duke - I get it. But it's difficult to say that Coach K is completely hypocritical, and I think it's also unfair to disregard his coaching success (on and off court) based on these preliminary FBI findings.
 
I highly doubt that Duke is clean but I think there is a very good chance that Duke escapes this particular investigation without problems.

Coach K is a very smart guy, one of the reasons he has been as successful as he has been is that he anticipates problems and this he probably saw the risk in getting involved in this mess.

Any cheating he does is done independent from the "agents" and the rest of that bunch of hangers on and low lifes. He doesn't need to do what Arizona or Mississipi State or the others who don't have the blue blood status do. His name and the uniform open a lot of doors that other school feel like they have to pay for.
 
This isn’t an original thought, but I do agree with it. Duke historically has a stellar reputation of being clean, but things have been different in recent history. Duke has started playing the one and done game, and that game largely correlates with the time since Jeff Capel has been back on coach K’s bench. I’ll leave it there for everyone to connect the dots.
 
My guess is Duke is in the same category as other schools that recruit top players, inluding Kentucky. No doubt the head coach is left out of the loop as much as possible, but I don't think K is stupid.

Whether players get paid or not makes little difference to me. I'd just like to see the pretence stopped.
 
My guess is Duke is in the same category as other schools that recruit top players, inluding Kentucky. No doubt the head coach is left out of the loop as much as possible, but I don't think K is stupid.

Whether players get paid or not makes little difference to me. I'd just like to see the pretence stopped.
Yep. And we can go back to when K first took over there. Mediocre to bad program hires a coach from Army who hadn't won much there and all of a sudden they're signing top classes? Really?
 
Yep. And we can go back to when K first took over there. Mediocre to bad program hires a coach from Army who hadn't won much there and all of a sudden they're signing top classes? Really?
Duke won the ACC and made the Elite 8 the season before Coach K took the head coach job, and made it to the NCAA champ game two years prior to that. I think you may be exaggerating this "turn around".

If it comes out he's dirty, I'll be the first to cast a stone, but I haven't yet seen reason to allege that he's been cheating.
 
Duke won the ACC and made the Elite 8 the season before Coach K took the head coach job, and made it to the NCAA champ game two years prior to that. I think you may be exaggerating this "turn around".

If it comes out he's dirty, I'll be the first to cast a stone, but I haven't yet seen reason to allege that he's been cheating.

Agreed, even without my Duke blinders on. One of my frustrations with football fans is when they talk **** about CU, saying Coach Mac's era is all we have. No, CU may not have won a title prior to Mac, and Mac is definitely a pinnacle. However, CU did have football success prior to Mac. Similarly, K is a massive mountain in Duke basketball, as he should be, but Duke did have a solid basketball history prior to K. Additionally, I'd have to look this up, but I question the comment made about "top classes." Dawkins was an early top recruit that K got before he was successful, but I'm really not sure if Alarie and Bilas were TOP recruits. Others, such as Grant Hill, Hurley, etc. saw success under K.

I would not be surprised though if Duke is caught in this FBI investigation. It's not so much that Duke started going after OADs, but there was a sudden shift in their ability to reel in top targets. It went from hits and misses, to consistent hits, especially with their bigs. I love Capel, but the timing is definitely odd. As much as I love Duke and CU, I want all college sports to be revamped so that education is given to the kids and finances are distributed more fairly.
 
My guess is Duke is in the same category as other schools that recruit top players, inluding Kentucky. No doubt the head coach is left out of the loop as much as possible, but I don't think K is stupid.

Whether players get paid or not makes little difference to me. I'd just like to see the pretence stopped.

Agree on your last sentence, but I fall short of condemning all coaches as being on the level of corruption and selfishness. No, I do not put the K on the same level as Cal (not talking about current status of their programs, as your statement is fair, although we're all ignorant of the true situations). Cal is a proven cheat at Mass and Memphis, and has clearly shown a disregard for academics. You can defend him if you would like, but likely any defense of Cal you may have has already been made. I disagree with them.

But yes, the pretense needs to stop, not just in college sports in general.

So, even if the FBI shuts duke down, k is innocent!

Hilarious.

That is definitely not what the intent of my messages is, and like most people, I think you're reading with anti-Duke glasses on. I wouldn't be surprised if Duke is in the FBI scandal, especially considering the recruiting success as of late. Nobody in Duke fan seriously thought Zion Williamson was going to commit, but here we are. Consider also the sudden turn around in getting bigs to commit, and the timing of recruiting success with Capel's hire....I'd like to think it's just successful recruiting - the tradition and track record of coaches and former players persuading kids to commit. But.... ....I wouldn't be shocked.

My K defense is in response to messages about him - there is nothing in his track record that screams cheating, and including Buffnik's comment about how he turned the Duke program around. Duke was struggling a little, but it still was a nationally respected program. They were runner-ups in 64 and 78, made the semifinals a few times more, etc. K surpassed all of that success many times over, but to say he was likely cheating when he took over I think is misguided. Two coaches I admire greatly are K and Izzo. If K is found to have been deeply involved in paying players and circumventing academics, then yes, his image will be tarnished and he should be punished. The good he has done will be diminished in the eye of the beholder. I was/am hit hard by the Nassar trials, and if Izzo overtly covered up sexual assault, then yes, his image and he should be punished. Sexual assault is a lot worse to me than cheating the NCAA, so it's not truly apples to apples. But, Izzo's reputation and good he's done will be diminished accordingly in the eyes of the beholder.

It's tough though in my opinion to argue that K and Izzo have done great things on and off the court, and seem to have a genuine interest in their players' success. We unfortunately cannot say the same for all coaches, but I'm glad it seems Tad fits that category.
 
Agreed, even without my Duke blinders on. One of my frustrations with football fans is when they talk **** about CU, saying Coach Mac's era is all we have. No, CU may not have won a title prior to Mac, and Mac is definitely a pinnacle. However, CU did have football success prior to Mac. Similarly, K is a massive mountain in Duke basketball, as he should be, but Duke did have a solid basketball history prior to K. Additionally, I'd have to look this up, but I question the comment made about "top classes." Dawkins was an early top recruit that K got before he was successful, but I'm really not sure if Alarie and Bilas were TOP recruits. Others, such as Grant Hill, Hurley, etc. saw success under K.

I would not be surprised though if Duke is caught in this FBI investigation. It's not so much that Duke started going after OADs, but there was a sudden shift in their ability to reel in top targets. It went from hits and misses, to consistent hits, especially with their bigs. I love Capel, but the timing is definitely odd. As much as I love Duke and CU, I want all college sports to be revamped so that education is given to the kids and finances are distributed more fairly.

Would it shock me if they were involved? No. Are they innocent in my mind until something gets put forth that would lead me to think otherwise? Yes.
 
My intuition is to put K in the same class as a Mike Montgomery. Probably plays the game because he has to, but isn’t one of the guys pushing the line and would be happier if things got cleaned up and he could play it straight.

My concern is that guys like that will get busted while many of the true renegades skate.
 
Wouldn't surprise me if Coach K is cheating, with the money involved and the importance winning in basketball has at Duke he may feel forced to stretch things some.

Also though wouldn't surprise me if he comes out of this FBI thing perfectly clean. What I am seeing in terms of the coaches who are in trouble is schools who made a deal with the devil getting involved with these shoe company reps and AAU street agents and the rest of the lowlifes. Coach K may have been smart enough to see these guys as an eventual trap. His status and the prominence of Duke is enough to get his foot in the door of almost any prospect he wants to talk to. From there any cheating can be done face the face without the need to involve somebody else who could potentially turn Duke in.

It is interesting as well to consider how these coaches deal with the kids in their program. Unlike a lot of schools Coach K does seem like someone who is interested in the future of his kids, not just what they can do for him this year on a basketball court. I don't like the cheating but I'd much rather have a guy who cheats some but takes care of his players than a guy who treats them like a commodity who if they don't get pro money end up with little to nothing to show for going to college.

Bobby Knight may have been one of the most disgusting individuals in coaching but he took great pride in his graduation rates, the number of his kids who came back to IU and finished degrees after leaving, and the relatively low number of kids from his program who ended up in negative headlines after they left his program.

John Wooden who we now know was party to a fair amount of cheating as well was able to win an amazing amount of games but his former players often remember him most for getting them ready to succeed at life.

How many of these guys who are involved in the FBI thing can claim to event try to approach those standards.
 
One of the most useless sanctions the NCAA imposes.

The fans of the school don't stop believing they won a title, all the fans who saw the games don't forget them. All the excitement, the publicity, etc. doesn't get taken away. They just add an asterisk to the record books.
I agree. I've always thought it makes sense to sanction the school moving forward. Post season ban, scholarship reduction, etc. and also to allows kids to transfer with no penalty. You can't rewrite history.
 
https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-spr...8.html?src=rss

There are spreadsheets detailing who got paid, how much they got paid and how much more they were planning to pay,” said a source familiar with the investigation. “The feds got everything they wanted and much more. Don’t think it will only be players who ended up signing with ASM that got paid. Those spreadsheets cast a wide net throughout college basketball. If your school produced a first-round pick in the past three years, be worried.”
 
Since I became involved with coaching at “summer camps” I’ve struggled with how a coach can keep the kids away from the agents. When the kids show up at camps with agent rep and entourage in tow, the scum factor is just ouzing. These kids are surrounded by predators.
 
Will AZ have to forfeit games due to Trier? With Metu and Boatwright showing they received payments, usc should have to also
 
Utah and USC caught up. Interesting to see who will be left standing.

Yahoo article has pictures of the documents

Washington too with Markelle Futz taking $10K (and not even ending up at the agency). Just shows you how deep the corruption runs when programs like Washington and Utah get caught up in it when they have been anything but powers in the conference.

Kyle Kuzma was a 3 star recruit. Fred Van Vleet from Wichita State was a 3 star recruit. These guys were getting money. No one in college basketball is safe.
 
Will AZ have to forfeit games due to Trier? With Metu and Boatwright showing they received payments, usc should have to also

From the looks of the number of schools involved it's a good question how many would be left if they forfeited wins and made them ineligible for post-season. We might almost get to the point of any P5 program with a .500+ record getting into the tourney and a bunch of mid-majors who would otherwise be in the NIT. The CBI would fill up with any D1 teams left around .500.
 
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