CU has rejoined the Big 12 and broken college football - talking out asses continues

[chitownbuff]

So the Big 12 made a mistake and shouldn't have added BYU, Cincy, UCF & UH? They shouldn't be looking at Memphis and UConn?

It's always something that seems inconsistent to me that something another conference is commended for which works is disparaged if it's something considered for the Pac-12.

For example, SDSU, Fresno State and UNLV all represent major & fast-growing media markets in the Pac footprint, Boise State has been the most successful G5 this century, and SMU is in one of the largest markets in the country. But many fans are sure they don't add value? That there's no deal which could be structured in a way that they were accretive to everyone's revenue? I don't buy that. When you can add significant markets with low travel costs for efficiencies in your unprofitable sports and add a lot of content assets, there's value. So it's just a matter of making a deal wherein the numbers work.

Recency bias (SDSU is the only one peaking), duration issues (some of these are long-term bets for a conference that may not have a long time), higher standards (most would immediately be considered bottom quartile in the conference), and personal experience (growing up in the Bay Area, Fresno was not a destination city).

If the PAC is ever going to thrive again, then add SDSU and go on the offensive (I.e., poach a Kansas or legit TX school) instead of doing the bare minimum just to live until the next big realignment. If all we care about is short-term survival, then why waste time on adding other G5 schools if we already have one foot out the door?

 

[PAC MAN]

Matt Brown reached out to UCSD recently to ask if they would consider starting up FB and was told no.

My bad I meant the University of San Diego Toreros in that case. I get USD and UCSD mixed up in cases like that.

Hope @torero forgives me.

 

[Victory]

Watch 2:02 into podcast. Interesting chat about all of this.
Flugar takes part in it BUT one of the others named Larry Pilgrim who were involved on the call drops that the presidents have seen a deal from Apple given last February.
I don't know who this guy is but I've seen him in other chats and on twitter. He may not know **** but the way he dropped the info was a 'by the way' statement, not
like it was some bombshell. Not sure what he does but seems to be in the industry. If you have 10-15 min the discussion is interesting.

All of these YouTubers are personally invested to push CU to the B12. Financially for views and they want it for their own teams and conference. It’s not news. Even if they end up being right it’s still not news.

 

[PAC MAN]

All of these YouTubers are personally invested to push CU to the B12. Financially for views and they want it for their own teams and conference. It’s not news. Even if they end up being right it’s still not news.

Who isn't motivated by money these days? At least you can tell kids down the road about the good old days of amateur sports at the college level.

 

[Buffnik]

My bad I meant the University of San Diego Toreros in that case. I get USD and UCSD mixed up in cases like that.

Hope @torero forgives me.

There are definitely folks (read: Cal, Stanford) who would much prefer a path which added UC Davis for the Sacramento market and UC San Diego for its market if there was a way to make it happen. Academic elite schools.

 

[PAC MAN]

There are definitely folks (read: Cal, Stanford) who would much prefer a path which added UC Davis for the Sacramento market and UC San Diego for its market if there was a way to make it happen. Academic elite schools.

That is what I am suspecting. If they just want a Cali only conference, they could do that. I thought that was limited to the Big West and WCC to a degree. It seems like that has creeped into the FBS level. Texas seemingly tried that with the old SWC outside of UTEP and look where the Texas schools are at these days and will be at.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

There are definitely folks (read: Cal, Stanford) who would much prefer a path which added UC Davis for the Sacramento market and UC San Diego for its market if there was a way to make it happen. Academic elite schools.

Then Cal and Stanford should withdraw from the P5 and go Ivy. Make it that much easier for CU, Utah, etc to get a B1G invite

 

[InTheBuff]

This was an interesting watch. They go over which universities within the last 10 years have spent the most money on research.
I was surprised to see ASU and Utah ahead of Colorado. One of the biggest surprises on the plus side is Pitt.



These guys then go on and do a separate breakdown of Colorado, looking at a four legged lens, using a stool as an example.
One leg is Cultural Fit, the next Strategic Growth, the third Academic Alignment, the fourth Athletic Competitiveness with the
cross supports of the stool being Money. A Sturdiness Analysis if you will.

One of the 'legs' that really surprised them was Academic Alignment. Colorado's academic ratings have substantially gone down
since joining the PAC.

 

[InTheBuff]

All of these YouTubers are personally invested to push CU to the B12. Financially for views and they want it for their own teams and conference. It’s not news. Even if they end up being right it’s still not news.

Larry Pilgrim, the individual who mentions that Apple has had a deal on the table since February, is a PAC guy who thinks they stay together.

 

[PAC MAN]

This was an interesting watch. They go over which universities within the last 10 years have spent the most money on research.
I was surprised to see ASU and Utah ahead of Colorado. One of the biggest surprises on the plus side is Pitt.

These guys then go on and do a separate breakdown of Colorado, looking at a four legged lens, using a stool as an example.
One leg is Cultural Fit, the next Strategic Growth, the third Academic Alignment, the fourth Athletic Competitiveness with the
cross supports of the stool being Money. A Sturdiness Analysis if you will.

One of the 'legs' that really surprised them was Academic Alignment. Colorado's academic ratings have substantially gone down
since joining the PAC.

I'm not sure leaving the P12 is a good idea at this point. Aren't you forgetting how difficult it was for CU to raise money for new facilities such as the Champions Center while in the Big 12 and then we make the move and boom we have the Champions Center.

Folsom Field is going to be in its 100th season this year and I think everyone is wondering that if we want to continue playing at Folsom Field for another 100 years, where is that money going to come from? The Keg needs renovations and club/premium seating sections.

And let's not get started with those radical faculty members who want to disband the athletic department.

 

[PAC MAN]

That would be awesome IF that happened.

 

[MiamiBuffs]

 

[Victory]

That would be awesome IF that happened.

Wilner said yesterday he expects some kind of leak a day or two before Friday or else Kliavkoff will get hammered with questions. I think he gets bombarded anyway.

 

[Dr Ship]

So the Big 12 made a mistake and shouldn't have added BYU, Cincy, UCF & UH? They shouldn't be looking at Memphis and UConn?

It's always something that seems inconsistent to me that something another conference is commended for which works is disparaged if it's something considered for the Pac-12.

For example, SDSU, Fresno State and UNLV all represent major & fast-growing media markets in the Pac footprint, Boise State has been the most successful G5 this century, and SMU is in one of the largest markets in the country. But many fans are sure they don't add value? That there's no deal which could be structured in a way that they were accretive to everyone's revenue? I don't buy that. When you can add significant markets with low travel costs for efficiencies in your unprofitable sports and add a lot of content assets, there's value. So it's just a matter of making a deal wherein the numbers work.

The Big XII shouldn't be looking at G5s. They took the best that were available at the time and should wait. UConn might be an exception...If they had money and invested in football I think they could be alright. They did make a Fiesta Bowl in 2010.

SDSU, Fresno State, UNLV, and SMU were all on the table when the Big XII expanded. They were passed over for a reason. BYU has it's nationwide following, Cincy recently made a CFP, and I truly believe Central Florida (not UCF, they get pissy about it) is a sleeping giant. I could see taking SDSU or UNLV over Houston, I think that was the Big XII's move to solidify their hold in TX, but they are a good basketball school.

Vegas is a pro sports town, and that's what is going to grow. When ISU played them out west in 2021 there were more ISU fans than UNLV fans.

SMU is a small, but rich, alumni base. They deliver Dallas like Rutgers delivers NY to the BIG (could also apply to UNLV). The difference being that the BIG has a network carriage model, so they get to charge NY whether they watch or not. PAC doesn't have that advantage.

I will readily admit I don't even think about Fresno State, which says something.

SDSU would be a good add. Might have taken them over Houston for the Big XII, especially now that they've had some basketball success. I know a lot of people wanted them on Cyclone Fanatic, but that was mostly for the road trip.

Looking forward to the Pac 12 media days. I'm thinking I'm going to get some good laughs.

 

[PAC MAN]

Wilner said yesterday he expects some kind of leak a day or two before Friday or else Kliavkoff will get hammered with questions. I think he gets bombarded anyway.

I imagine Wilner is advising GK in this case.

 

[Liver]

In Liver's circle you're not an American if you don't.
You'll forego what you enjoy at whatever cost and basically like it.
LMAO those hot pockets on I 70 E would be righteous for the "culture lovers".
There's a good Sushi place outside of Lawrence or so I've heard.
Oklahoma State has been to how many bowl games in a row?
Fin

using words is sometimes hard.

 

[Liver]

The Big XII shouldn't be looking at G5s. They took the best that were available at the time and should wait. UConn might be an exception...If they had money and invested in football I think they could be alright. They did make a Fiesta Bowl in 2010.

SDSU, Fresno State, UNLV, and SMU were all on the table when the Big XII expanded. They were passed over for a reason. BYU has it's nationwide following, Cincy recently made a CFP, and I truly believe Central Florida (not UCF, they get pissy about it) is a sleeping giant. I could see taking SDSU or UNLV over Houston, I think that was the Big XII's move to solidify their hold in TX, but they are a good basketball school.

Vegas is a pro sports town, and that's what is going to grow. When ISU played them out west in 2021 there were more ISU fans than UNLV fans.

SMU is a small, but rich, alumni base. They deliver Dallas like Rutgers delivers NY to the BIG (could also apply to UNLV). The difference being that the BIG has a network carriage model, so they get to charge NY whether they watch or not. PAC doesn't have that advantage.

I will readily admit I don't even think about Fresno State, which says something.

SDSU would be a good add. Might have taken them over Houston for the Big XII, especially now that they've had some basketball success. I know a lot of people wanted them on Cyclone Fanatic, but that was mostly for the road trip.

Looking forward to the Pac 12 media days. I'm thinking I'm going to get some good laughs.

dude, the whole b12 without ut and ou is basically the top tier g5 school now. it is a conference that has no marquee powerhouses anymore.

this is the part the b12 fans seem to be missing.

the pac STILL has between 2-5 national brands depending on how you count. the core is better and it isn't close. if the pac blows up, it will be due to massive ineptitude and self inflicted. it won't be because the b12 is a better top to bottom league. it isn't.

 

[ScreamingBeagle]

dude, the whole b12 without ut and ou is basically the top tier g5 school now. it is a conference that has no marquee powerhouses anymore.

this is the part the b12 fans seem to be missing.

the pac STILL has between 2-5 national brands depending on how you count. the core is better and it isn't close. if the pac blows up, it will be due to massive ineptitude and self inflicted. it won't be because the b12 is a better top to bottom league. it isn't.

Except every school (minus KU) is invested in doing what it takes to win football games, and have shown a commitment to spending the money to hire the best possible coaches and invest in the needed facilities. They put butts in seats and sell tickets. And every B12 member (minus KU ) has proven to be football competitive. Networks want schools that want to invest in the sport and commit to giving their fan bases a product they can be proud in.

And CU finally showed they get it by going after Deion Sanders. They finally realized they had to commit to putting a competive product field or be left behind.

Criticize the BigXII all you want. Mock the landscape, Mock the culture, but their fans want to win. They fans care about the sport, and they tune it to watch. And when the SEC annouced they would play ball in 2020 the Big XII didn't hem and haw, they followed suite.

As opposed to another conference that put a half-ass product on the field of 3-4 games, and failed to live up to their financial obligations to the networks.

The media partners want a good faith effort by a conference as a whole to deliver a good product that will deliver them the financial payoff they placed thier trust in.

 

[Dr Ship]

dude, the whole b12 without ut and ou is basically the top tier g5 school now. it is a conference that has no marquee powerhouses anymore.

this is the part the b12 fans seem to be missing.

the pac STILL has between 2-5 national brands depending on how you count. the core is better and it isn't close. if the pac blows up, it will be due to massive ineptitude and self inflicted. it won't be because the b12 is a better top to bottom league. it isn't.

Apparently the networks disagree with you, which would be what's important.

Who won the first playoff game for the Big XII? TCU

The Big XII has sent every member but KU and WV (new members excluded) to a NY6bowl in the past 5 years. And they've seen success. Texas has done less with more over the last decade than possibly any program in history. OU is going to regret this move (other than the money); they're going to be the next Arkansas.

Say what you will, I think the new Big XII will be fun to watch. No real powerhouses, incredible parity. It will generate interest in gambling circles because of that alone, and if you've got people gambling you'll be fine.

 

[PAC MAN]

The Big XII shouldn't be looking at G5s. They took the best that were available at the time and should wait. UConn might be an exception...If they had money and invested in football I think they could be alright. They did make a Fiesta Bowl in 2010.

SDSU, Fresno State, UNLV, and SMU were all on the table when the Big XII expanded. They were passed over for a reason. BYU has it's nationwide following, Cincy recently made a CFP, and I truly believe Central Florida (not UCF, they get pissy about it) is a sleeping giant. I could see taking SDSU or UNLV over Houston, I think that was the Big XII's move to solidify their hold in TX, but they are a good basketball school.

Vegas is a pro sports town, and that's what is going to grow. When ISU played them out west in 2021 there were more ISU fans than UNLV fans.

SMU is a small, but rich, alumni base. They deliver Dallas like Rutgers delivers NY to the BIG (could also apply to UNLV). The difference being that the BIG has a network carriage model, so they get to charge NY whether they watch or not. PAC doesn't have that advantage.

I will readily admit I don't even think about Fresno State, which says something.

SDSU would be a good add. Might have taken them over Houston for the Big XII, especially now that they've had some basketball success. I know a lot of people wanted them on Cyclone Fanatic, but that was mostly for the road trip.

Looking forward to the Pac 12 media days. I'm thinking I'm going to get some good laughs.

dude, the whole b12 without ut and ou is basically the top tier g5 school now. it is a conference that has no marquee powerhouses anymore.

this is the part the b12 fans seem to be missing.

the pac STILL has between 2-5 national brands depending on how you count. the core is better and it isn't close. if the pac blows up, it will be due to massive ineptitude and self inflicted. it won't be because the b12 is a better top to bottom league. it isn't.

The PAC has done pretty good with the former G5 teams have invited to the conference in UA, ASU (both AZ schools from the WAC), and Utah.

The Big 12 likewise has done well with TCU. BYU, Houston, Cincinnati, and UCF have done so well in football and come from fertile recruiting areas.

Dr. Ship: It isn't just about eyeballs for TV or streaming but there are quite a few high schools in DFW with D1 talent. Vegas has the eyeballs for college sports but I don't think either the B12 or P12 is interested in them due to their poor football history. Vegas is pretty cheap to travel to and is convenient so any opposing fanbase will bring more fans than anywhere else.

And taking SDSU over Houston? Laughable given that Houston alone is the fourth largest city in the USA and Greater Houston is the fifth most populous area which is right behind DFW.

 

[PAC MAN]

Except every school (minus KU) is invested in doing what it takes to win football games, and have shown a commitment to spending the money to hire the best possible coaches and invest in the needed facilities. They put butts in seats and sell tickets. And every B12 member (minus KU ) has proven to be football competitive. Networks want schools that want to invest in the sport and commit to giving their fan bases a product they can be proud in.

And CU finally showed they get it by going after Deion Sanders. They finally realized they had to commit to putting a competive product field or be left behind.

Criticize the BigXII all you want. Mock the landscape, Mock the culture, but their fans want to win. They fans care about the sport, and they tune it to watch. And when the SEC annouced they would play ball in 2020 the Big XII didn't hem and haw, they followed suite.

As opposed to another conference that put a half-ass product on the field of 3-4 games, and failed to live up to their financial obligations to the networks.

The media partners want a good faith effort by a conference as a whole to deliver a good product that will deliver them the financial payoff they placed thier trust in.

 

[Jens1893]

Do I get this right, we are essentially still waiting for some details on what the P12 may or may not have negotiated in regards to the media rights from 2024 onwards? And once that becomes public, how soon after do we believe we hear sth about a possible conference move?

 

[Victory]

Except every school (minus KU) is invested in doing what it takes to win football games, and have shown a commitment to spending the money to hire the best possible coaches and invest in the needed facilities. They put butts in seats and sell tickets. And every B12 member (minus KU ) has proven to be football competitive. Networks want schools that want to invest in the sport and commit to giving their fan bases a product they can be proud in.

And CU finally showed they get it by going after Deion Sanders. They finally realized they had to commit to putting a competive product field or be left behind.

Criticize the BigXII all you want. Mock the landscape, Mock the culture, but their fans want to win. They fans care about the sport, and they tune it to watch. And when the SEC annouced they would play ball in 2020 the Big XII didn't hem and haw, they followed suite.

As opposed to another conference that put a half-ass product on the field of 3-4 games, and failed to live up to their financial obligations to the networks.

The media partners want a good faith effort by a conference as a whole to deliver a good product that will deliver them the financial payoff they placed thier trust in.

Old narrative. 4 remaining P12 schools finished with 10 wins. 3 of the 4 worst programs made HC changes.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

Do I get this right, we are essentially still waiting for some details on what the P12 may or may not have negotiated in regards to the media rights from 2024 onwards? And once that becomes public, how soon after do we believe we hear sth about a possible conference move?

I think if any schools are leaving the Pac, that would have to happen prior to any media deal being announced publicly, since the media deal is assuredly contingent on what programs are going to be in the conference.

 

[BlackNGold]

So the Big 12 made a mistake and shouldn't have added BYU, Cincy, UCF & UH? They shouldn't be looking at Memphis and UConn?

It's always something that seems inconsistent to me that something another conference is commended for which works is disparaged if it's something considered for the Pac-12.

For example, SDSU, Fresno State and UNLV all represent major & fast-growing media markets in the Pac footprint, Boise State has been the most successful G5 this century, and SMU is in one of the largest markets in the country. But many fans are sure they don't add value? That there's no deal which could be structured in a way that they were accretive to everyone's revenue? I don't buy that. When you can add significant markets with low travel costs for efficiencies in your unprofitable sports and add a lot of content assets, there's value. So it's just a matter of making a deal wherein the numbers work.

No, but in the last 6 months everything has changed from a media revenue standpoint. Those 3 of those 4 schools have pretty good brands in G5 and represent so large population base so at the time it was done it did not hurt them too bad. Today the revenue market for linear programming has dried up and people are trying to figure out if there is money in streaming - see writers strike. The Mistake the PAC12 made was over a decade ago when they started the PAC12 network. It put a barrier between them and the media companies. Even today the PAC is running around trying to make separate deals with all the media companies which is difficult if you are not adept at it.

You have your opinion but when the deadline passed for leaving the MWC, SDSU said they were staying - tells me no one was making an offer.

 

[ScreamingBeagle]

Apparently the networks disagree with you, which would be what's important.

Who won the first playoff game for the Big XII? TCU

The Big XII has sent every member but KU and WV (new members excluded) to a NY6bowl in the past 5 years. And they've seen success. Texas has done less with more over the last decade than possibly any program in history. OU is going to regret this move (other than the money); they're going to be the next Arkansas.

Say what you will, I think the new Big XII will be fun to watch. No real powerhouses, incredible parity. It will generate interest in gambling circles because of that alone, and if you've got people gambling you'll be fine.

OU will do fine. They won't dominate they way they do in BigXII, but the fans and university won't accept mediocrity. They have invested in the facilities and shown the ability to be SEC competitive in coach pay.

They really struggled with the 'SEC recruiting' narrative that A&M throws out, and lost out on some athletic guys to that. I think with a level playing field that turn that table around and have a better legacy than some of the SEC teams throwing that around. OU has also shown more commitment to NIL collectives in the past year.

There will be an important window in the first few years under Venables. He has shown he can recruit and is in the middle of July stretch they could make this class as competitive as last years. If he fails thay will be on him as he has maintained the blue chip ratio.

They are in much better shape than with Lincoln Riley. They needed a physicality mentality to compete in the SEC, and Riley wasn't about that.

 

[PAC MAN]

Do I get this right, we are essentially still waiting for some details on what the P12 may or may not have negotiated in regards to the media rights from 2024 onwards? And once that becomes public, how soon after do we believe we hear sth about a possible conference move?

We are waiting for the P12 media rights deal to be offered then the decision will be made. Can't happen soon enough.

 

[InTheBuff]

You can't make this **** up.
Amateur hour continues.



Maybe they mean new coaches in the Big12 for 2024 ?

 

[PAC MAN]

You can't make this **** up.
Amateur hour continues.



Maybe they mean new coaches in the Big12 for 2024 ?

LOL that would be funny.

 

[leftybuff]

SMU does not, repeat does not deliver the Dallas market, in any way, shape or form.