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Is Baer part of the problem?

tante said:
When Orms got bowled over by their QB, it should be painfully obvious to everyone we need an upgrade of talent.

Guys like Orms should be on teams like UNC or CSU Pueblo.
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He's a great kid but he was small and slow for BCS football coming out of HS and hasn't gotten bigger or faster. He is smart, tough, and works very hard but it isn't enough,

We need to fill our roster with guys who are big enough and fast enough and hopefully can coach them up to be competitive. You can do all the coaching you want but if if a kid is to slow he still gets run past and if he is to small he still gets run over.
 
lawdogg said:
Can't really argue with this, but it continues to be the chicken or the egg dilemma. We can't win the way we all want to win with guys of that caliber, but we should be able to be dramatically more competitive than we were last night. Being more competitive in games, and possibly winning one or two more games in a season seems like what would be necessary to land the guys out there who are in that next echelon above the Webbs and Orms of the world. So at some point, the Webbs and Orms' need to at least perform up to the level of their capabilities and a lot of that goes to the coaching.
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Thing is, Webb and Orms were late pickups when we didn't have many other options. I can understand those moves, even if I don't like them. But taking those types of players in April-July before their senior seasons is a different story. No reason that can't change at the very least.

But overall, recruit taller players or undersized, faster players. Let's stop splitting the difference.
 
Well after reading all the responses so far I am not sure it is clear that % of the blame belongs with Baer. I definitely expected more improvement than we have seen and yesterday was atrocious. If our D is going to play that way, we need to be more aggressive on offense, going for it on 4th down if we are even close to the 50.
 
Duff Man said:
The defense has done nothing the last few weeks. Let's stop trying to sugarcoat it. Last night actually could have been worse if not for red zone penalties by UDub.
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I keep thinking of the points off turnovers given up by the offense and wanting to give the D some kind of break on the 59 points allowed. Until I realize that UW put up 460 yards in the first half. The way they were moving the ball, they could have put up 59 without our help had they chosen to...

I was high on Baer (shut up, Liver Flukes) after the first 2-3 games of the year, mostly because of the way the defense was finally forcing some turnovers and not looking like they were just waiting for bad things to happen. But it's pretty clear that against higher caliber competition, they're still a long way from being able to play that way...
 
Got to give the staff time. They are improving on defense. Better coverage. Better understanding of assignments. Better positioning. And more turnovers. We just don't have anyone talented enough to make a play on third down. We were in position to make a third down stop but got beat one on one almost everything time. Then the d can't get off the field they wear down and the game implodes. But we are definitely better coached than last year. Between Baer and McIntyre I am not worried about our game day d coaching. Just need to get better talent. I am a Koolaid drinker, but I think the d will be better every year.
 
How are we going to get better if we can never get better athletes? If we do get better guys we won't redshirt them either and they'll be eaten by the wolves. So what if we always play our assignments well. That is an improvement, but we will always see guys getting run over or getting blown by.
 
NMBuff said:
How are we going to get better if we can never get better athletes? If we do get better guys we won't redshirt them either and they'll be eaten by the wolves. So what if we always play our assignments well. That is an improvement, but we will always see guys getting run over or getting blown by.
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JUCOs
 
We should have better talent next year with the young players we have getting more experience. More strength and more speed.
Solis hennington topou and kafavolu should be stronger next year. Add Lopez and a juco and the dts should be better
losing cud hurts but Gilbert Parker and Wilson should be better. Gilbert especially. Plus if 1 of the freshman or a juco steps up. We should be better even without cud.
Gillam will be better and I hope Rippy upgrades web spot. Reid severson or olgobode would improve speed
hendo wright and awuzie. Are solid and Thompson is much more athletic tha norms.
Not PAC 12 champs but an improvement
 
Baer is a throwback to the days of when offenses were 3 yards and a cloud of dust. His teams play a style where the dline ties up the Oline and the linebackers come in and makes the tackles (think Joe Collier with the Broncos in the 70's and 80's). Why do you think Gilliam has so many tackles? As they have played teams with sophisticated offenses they are getting creamed. Offensive coordinators do not have to do anything special against Baer because he is not going to put in many wrinkles and he does not disguise his coverages very well. What makes it so glaring is CU lacks talent. So they are over matched talent wise and have not made things tough strategy wise.

Plus it appears the Baer has no idea of how to stop the Zone Read. We have given up over 600 yards on defense several times against that type of offense and it could of been worse if teams like ASU had not called off the dogs early. Washington after they pulled Price obviously told their team not to throw the ball and we could not stop their second string when they were not even passing the ball. They pulled their second string so not to run up the score any more.
 
DavisBuff said:
Got to give the staff time. They are improving on defense. Better coverage. Better understanding of assignments. Better positioning. And more turnovers. We just don't have anyone talented enough to make a play on third down. We were in position to make a third down stop but got beat one on one almost everything time. Then the d can't get off the field they wear down and the game implodes. But we are definitely better coached than last year. Between Baer and McIntyre I am not worried about our game day d coaching. Just need to get better talent. I am a Koolaid drinker, but I think the d will be better every year.
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This is just not correct. Coverage - Washington completed 70% of their passes, We made Denker of UA (one of the lowest rated QB's in the PAC12) look like RG3. Assignments - against the Zone read we have not covered the QB running yet. Better positioning - go look at the film of Price's 18 yard run for a TD in the second quarter - everyone noticed Orms getting blown up on that play but what about Gilliam being out of position even though his assignment was the QB on that play. Fans seem to think if they spout some of this stuff it becomes true. Washington was marching down field at will last night, only times they were derailed was when they made mistakes on their own.
 
BlackNGold said:
This is just not correct. Coverage - Washington completed 70% of their passes, We made Denker of UA (one of the lowest rated QB's in the PAC12) look like RG3. Assignments - against the Zone read we have not covered the QB running yet. Better positioning - go look at the film of Price's 18 yard run for a TD in the second quarter - everyone noticed Orms getting blown up on that play but what about Gilliam being out of position even though his assignment was the QB on that play. Fans seem to think if they spout some of this stuff it becomes true. Washington was marching down field at will last night, only times they were derailed was when they made mistakes on their own.
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This x2
 
BlackNGold said:
This is just not correct. Coverage - Washington completed 70% of their passes, We made Denker of UA (one of the lowest rated QB's in the PAC12) look like RG3. Assignments - against the Zone read we have not covered the QB running yet. Better positioning - go look at the film of Price's 18 yard run for a TD in the second quarter - everyone noticed Orms getting blown up on that play but what about Gilliam being out of position even though his assignment was the QB on that play. Fans seem to think if they spout some of this stuff it becomes true. Washington was marching down field at will last night, only times they were derailed was when they made mistakes on their own.
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Gillam was not in bad position on that play. He slipped and got beat.
But I am not arguing that defense is good. Obviously we are not good. But we are definitely Better than last year. Last year a slant pass was a touchdown. This year it is a third down conversion. It is not were we want to be but there are small steps toward progress.
 
Baer needs to be coaching for his job next year. By no means is this defense talented, but there's enough of it to force a single punt against UW. Crawley is playing like ass, but talent isn't his problem. That's on the coaches to get him playing up to his talent level. The DL has some talent as well, but they're not playing like it. LBs and Safeties are just bad. Orms getting pancaked by Keith ****ing Price is just depressing.
 
boydbuff said:
We have another thread on what we need to recruit on the defensive side. Lots of people were not excited about Baer joining our staff as DC given his up and down track record in BCS programs including in the PAC.

How much of our crappy D this year is due to Baer's schemes and approach and how much is due to our lack of talent?

I am on the fence but judging how we played fairly well on D against inferior teams, especially the 2 CSUs, and even hung in there against fUCLA for a while, I am inclined to say it is mostly a talent gap problem that can be fixed over the coming years with recruiting (hopefully with some ready-made JUCO starters).

But is Baer also to blame?
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Maybe Mac, who won assistant of the year as a DC, could make Baer LB coach and take over that role? Not a serious proposal, but the talent level is not so wide we should be losing like this. I am frustrated as hell with seeing real improvements and then laying an egg like this. Won't read too much into it other than they had an off game...and we are young and bad enough right now I guess this is what an "off" game looks like. But I'll tell ya, these rose-colored glasses are getting a bit scratched up from overuse.
 
He's not part of the solution.

We need a real DC, but who can mM hire to come to **** **** show?
 
boydbuff said:
Well after reading all the responses so far I am not sure it is clear that % of the blame belongs with Baer. I definitely expected more improvement than we have seen and yesterday was atrocious. If our D is going to play that way, we need to be more aggressive on offense, going for it on 4th down if we are even close to the 50.
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Did Baer recruit most of these kids? Any of them? But he's to blame for the bad soup? :lol:

I'd prefer we give the guy 3 classes of his own and then judge. I don't think coaching, now, is the problem. Coaching previously and recruiting is another matter. And what was S&C like under those previous two coaches?
 
White_Rabbit said:
Baer needs to be coaching for his job next year. By no means is this defense talented, but there's enough of it to force a single punt against UW. Crawley is playing like ass, but talent isn't his problem. That's on the coaches to get him playing up to his talent level. The DL has some talent as well, but they're not playing like it. LBs and Safeties are just bad. Orms getting pancaked by Keith ****ing Price is just depressing.
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How can you possibly say that?


We had the worst defense in the NCAA last year. We've had nearly five or six awful recruiting classes none which were Baers or legitimately his. Were currently ranked 117 out of 120 and falling. How is this his fault?


We need a guy with a ****ing magic wand is what we need.


Would you send your kid here? Even the former players we've had have guided their children away from CU. We're a fricking train wreck. Its gonna tough to get players to come here which means its going to be a tough future too. And we didn't hire a big name coach either (too poor apparently) to attract recruits which was probably our only hope.
 
So we just can't expect any meaningful improvement from being a historically bad defense? Great argument.
 
MiamiBuffs said:
How can you possibly say that?


We had the worst defense in the NCAA last year. We've had nearly five or six awful recruiting classes none which were Baers or legitimately his. Were currently ranked 117 out of 120 and falling. How is this his fault?


We need a guy with a ****ing magic wand is what we need.


Would you send your kid here? Even the former players we've had have guided their children away from CU. We're a fricking train wreck. Its gonna tough to get players to come here which means its going to be a tough future too. And we didn't hire a big name coach either (too poor apparently) to attract recruits which was probably our only hope.
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Is this a serious response to my post? We were the worst last year, so it's ok that we're also the worst this year, but how can it possibly be the defensive coordinator taking any of the blame? I mean, at least you bring the logic.
 
JimmyBuff said:
Not until they get better players on the field. He needs to hit the recruiting trail.
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I know we don't have good talent on D, but we should expect to see more improvement than we have on D. We created some turnovers early on, but we haven't for a few games now and we can't even slow down a mobile QB at all to save our lives. They also can't get off the field on 3rd and long, how many did UW convert on last night?
 
What I'm saying is that we lack talent. And these coaches haven't had a legitimate recruiting class yet either. Yet the argument is, despite three coaching staffs producing the same result, one here barely a year, the situation is once again their fault. That's the gist of most of the posts in this thread.

You can't take a non athletic kid with the limited number of hours the NCAA allows for organized activities (practice, film, etc) and hope to move him from a 2* to a 3* or 1* to a 2*. How can 8-12 coaches whip 40-50 projects into shape? The kid has to want to do that on his own and will commit to that and lead others. After the 1993 season the seniors that made up the core of the 94 team made a commitment to lift weights and work out in the spring and summer on their own. I don't know if this team is doing that. Given the coaches we've had and the depressing experience I doubt many hang around Dal Ward at all. Maybe M2 will give them new hope. Time is what we need.
 
It's not all their fault, but giving up less than 50 points a game in the conference is not an unreasonable expectation. You can't simply explain those numbers with just poor talent. Coaching matters a little bit.
 
Your right. M2 needs to shake up the staff if he's to stay. :wink2:

Look, your one of the recruiting gurus around here and I am most certainly not. That being said its well known that this is a team loaded with guys whose only BCS school offer, was from us. A few had their only D1 offer from us. That should tell you something about what these coaches have to work with when its time to compete in the trenches. And they are good kids just trying to understand their third system in some cases. Hardly a formula for consistency.

Am I giving these coaches a pass for this season? And maybe even next? Yes I am. We are at the bottom of a very deep hole. One that might take years, maybe decades to get out of. If, two to three years from now were still making kids their only D1 or BCS conf offers *and*[/] were not winning than I'll complain. Because then the team is most all M2s guys.

Sometime in the future the moment will arrive where we all know that we are either on our way back or still stuck and a change is due. This is not that moment.
 
Who on defense would start at other p12 schools?

Henderson only. Gillam would be red shirting. Cud would be a situational guy.
 
Liver said:
Who on defense would start at other p12 schools?

Henderson only. Gillam would be red shirting. Cud would be a situational guy.
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I question how many Henderson would start for. Hendo is a great kid who is fundamentally sound and a hard worker. At the same time there is a reason why the coaches put Crowley on the other teams star recievers so often. Hendo is very good in zone but lacks the top end speed and quickness of an elite corner. This is why he wasn't heavily recruited out of HS.
 
I'm not suggesting we fire Baer, but I also don't believe there are 115 teams in the country with better talent than CU. Maybe 70-80, but not 100+, so at some point this team needs to make some incremental improvement.
 
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