Official Coaching Search Thread

[CUBuff98]

Not hearing much chatter about Jack Del Rio except as potential USC candidate. Is he too far out of reach, or do we simply not want him here?

 

[Jeric]

Why do people say Holgorsen's teams don't play defense? Their scoring defense numbers (besides 2017) have been decent over the past few years from what I can tell, especially given their offense.

 

[buffaholic]

Playcalling is easy? Nice take.

Easy compared to architecting the offense, etc. He's been given a script man. It's all there to see.

 

[manhattanbuff]

Easy compared to architecting the offense, etc. He's been given a script man. It's all there to see.

If playcalling were easy, Colorado would be on top of the Pac-12 south. We run the same offense as the best team in the conference but to substantially different results.

 

[HoosierBuff]

Nah, I stand by it: Holgo is a louisville, or Ole miss, or texas tech type of coach. Seems rednecky, etc. . .its not so much the liberal boulder that presents the fit problems, its the Red Bull/Nascar vibe I get from him.

 

[buffaholic]

If playcalling were easy, Colorado would be on top of the Pac-12 south. We run the same offense as the best team in the conference but to substantially different results.

That's simplistic. Our offense is not the exact same as any offense. To infer that what's broken with Chev's offense could be cured by calling the plays better (i.e. the simple selection of plays differently from the game card" is silly. That is in fact my point. There's a lot more to it than "calling the play".

 

[manhattanbuff]

That's simplistic. Our offense is not the exact same as any offense. To infer that what's broken with Chev's offense could be cured by calling the plays better (i.e. the simple selection of plays differently from the game card" is silly. That is in fact my point. There's a lot more to it than "calling the play".

It is not. It is an easy response to your awful take. We attempt to run the same offense as Washington State. The architecture is just fine. Playcalling is not easy, especially since it deals with the variable of player execution. If playcalling was the “easy part” as you describe, then Colorado would have substantially better results. We don’t because, as we’ve found out, playcalling is the chess match of the game. We’ve lost those battles because we don’t have good enough players to execute the plans.

 

[Master Blaster]

It is not. It is an easy response to your awful take. We attempt to run the same offense as Washington State. The architecture is just fine. Playcalling is not easy, especially since it deals with the variable of player execution. If playcalling was the “easy part” as you describe, then Colorado would have substantially better results. We don’t because, as we’ve found out, playcalling is the chess match of the game. We’ve lost those battles because we don’t have good enough players to execute the plans.

Washington State runs actual route concepts and puts the QB in a position to read the defense, make a decision, and throw with anticipation.

We’re doing very little of that. It’s not just playcalling, the plays themselves are too simple

 

[brettden]

Reid is the HC. Of course he is involved in the game and the ebbs of the contest. EB called the vast majority of the plays. If we’re basing off of what the camera showed, Reid’s lips were persed and EB was calling the plays from the sheet. Reid would offer input as the boss. On several occasions, you could see him offer approval/input/suggestions per his job.

When the game was in the 4th quarter Reid was telling EB what play to call, and EB was relaying it to the QB. I don't have a feeling one way or another toward the guy, but he isn't a P5 head coach. But he is learning from one of the great offensive minds in the game, and at some point Im sure he will be in a place where he is the sole play caller and/or a head coach. But he isn't the play caller in KC, at least not when it matters most.

 

[gobuffs58]

Nah, I stand by it: Holgo is a louisville, or Ole miss, or texas tech type of coach. Seems rednecky, etc. . .its not so much the liberal boulder that presents the fit problems, its the Red Bull/Nascar vibe I get from him.

if he’s a excellent coach, i dont give a **** if he chews coopenhagen, drinks moonshine, loves nascar, and voted for trump!....just bring a winner to boulder please

 

[manhattanbuff]

Washington State runs actual route concepts and puts the QB in a position to read the defense, make a decision, and throw with anticipation.

We’re doing very little of that. It’s not just playcalling, the plays themselves are too simple

Thank you for making my point.

Architecture of the offense is the exact same.
We cannot call the plays the same because our players aren’t good enough to block the schemes. The playcalling side of execution is confounded by the skill of the players and the attempt to adapt to your personnel’s strengths and weaknesses.

 

[manhattanbuff]

When the game was in the 4th quarter Reid was telling EB what play to call, and EB was relaying it to the QB. I don't have a feeling one way or another toward the guy, but he isn't a P5 head coach. But he is learning from one of the great offensive minds in the game, and at some point Im sure he will be in a place where he is the sole play caller and/or a head coach. But he isn't the play caller in KC, at least not when it matters most.

We’ll have to agree to disagree. If he’s going to soon be the HC of a multi-million or billion dollar NFL team, he certainly could be a P5 coach.

 

[Master Blaster]

Thank you for making my point.

Architecture of the offense is the exact same.
We cannot call the plays the same because our players aren’t good enough to block the schemes. The playcalling side of execution is confounded by the skill of the players and the attempt to adapt to your personnel’s strengths and weaknesses.

I disagree with this. Chev ignores the middle part of the field. You don’t need the O-Line to hold up for 8 seconds to run quick slants or crossing routes, or quick 2 man patterns like a slant/flat combo. Instead we either run a go route or a screen. Very little in between

 

[manhattanbuff]

I disagree with this. Chev ignores the middle part of the field. You don’t need the O-Line to hold up for 8 seconds to run quick slants or crossing routes, or quick 2 man patterns like a slant/flat combo. Instead we either run a go route or a screen. Very little in between

Have you broken down Montez’ ability to make those throws? If not, it’s something I recommend. Those throws and our interior OL pass pro are major liabilities.

This makes playcalling really tough.

 

[Master Blaster]

Have you broken down Montez’ ability to make those throws? If not, it’s something I recommend. Those throws and our interior OL pass pro are major liabilities.

This makes playcalling really tough.

I have noticed that almost every play seems to be a single read by design. Is that on Chev because he’s not creative enough or is it because he doesn’t trust Montez to read a defense? I honestly don’t know and I wouldn’t be surprised if it was either one.

But I have noticed Chev has a very clear gameplan he wants to do.

1. Attack the edges to spread the defense out

2. Run the ball up the middle once the defense starts cheating toward the edge

3. Go over the top when the defense starts cheating toward the line of scrimmage.

The problem is against good defenses, he can’t get past step 1

 

[brettden]

Easy compared to architecting the offense, etc. He's been given a script man. It's all there to see.

In my opinion it takes a certain skill set to develop an offense, and a different skill set to call plays on game day. I don't know if I'd classify it as a skill, but having an awareness of player capability factors into what you can do as far as play calling. Individuals who have the ability to design offensive schemes, then call plays within those schemes are less common, in my opinion, than individuals who can do both. Then, the next level is the playcaller who can identify counters/adjustments as a defense adjusts to the offensive game plan.

I think Chev, and the entire offensive staff for that matter, really struggles with the adjustment concept. Once a defense adjust to things that have been working it seems the offense goes dead in the water. So long story short, the way I see it finding a coach that can design an offensive system, effectively call plays within that system, and adjust as a defense adjusts is the rarest breed of offensive (or defensive coach). But these guys aren't unicorns either. I don't think we have had a guy like that at CU since the Barnett years. If RG can find a couple of those guys CU will be exceptional, in the PAC12 at least, in short order bc I think there isn't a team in the conference we can't match up with right now.

Finally, if I could have anyone short of Nick Saban right now, I'd probably shoot for Kyly Wittingham. He runs a power system on offense and defense, he has the connections to recruit the Poly players that we desperately need to gain the needed power up front to compete with the big dogs, he has access to plenty of legitimate P5 coaches, and he can beat up any other coach in the Pac12 (seriously though he is a tough dude, and his teams play to his persona). Plus a salary that puts him in the top 20 nationally would be a 15%ish bump for him. Maybe he is done sticking it to BYU and would see CU as a platform to increase his profile or something like that. Anyway that is who I would shoot for.

 

[Darth Snow]

I have noticed that almost every play seems to be a single read by design. Is that on Chev because he’s not creative enough or is it because he doesn’t trust Montez to read a defense? I honestly don’t know and I wouldn’t be surprised if it was either one.

But I have noticed Chev has a very clear gameplan he wants to do.

1. Attack the edges to spread the defense out

2. Run the ball up the middle once the defense starts cheating toward the edge

3. Go over the top when the defense starts cheating toward the line of scrimmage.

The problem is against good defenses, he can’t get past step 1

Pretty solid breakdown iyam. He also loves to just do step 1 and 2 repeatedly and forgets to try step 3 until too late in the game.

 

[brettden]

And I know this is misplaced in this thread, but I think Kansas is absolutely nuts for not hiring Mac. He was clearly on the way out from CU and they could have prob had him on the cheap compared to Miles. Give him a four year deal, and move on after year three. Kansas would have been back to a 6-10 win team. To each his own I suppose.

 

[manhattanbuff]

I have noticed that almost every play seems to be a single read by design. Is that on Chev because he’s not creative enough or is it because he doesn’t trust Montez to read a defense? I honestly don’t know and I wouldn’t be surprised if it was either one.

But I have noticed Chev has a very clear gameplan he wants to do.

1. Attack the edges to spread the defense out

2. Run the ball up the middle once the defense starts cheating toward the edge

3. Go over the top when the defense starts cheating toward the line of scrimmage.

The problem is against good defenses, he can’t get past step 1

I asked the same questions as you. That’s why I broke down the film. Montez is very physically gifted but has significant limitations in seeing defenses and making throws in the middle of the field. The game plan is complicated by the players. I won’t repost about the effect our disaster OL has on the scheme.

 

[Master Blaster]

I asked the same questions as you. That’s why I broke down the film. Montez is very physically gifted but has significant limitations in seeing defenses and making throws in the middle of the field. The game plan is complicated by the players. I won’t repost about the effect our disaster OL has on the scheme.

Yeah I’ll have to take a look at this. He has so few attempts over the middle this year that it’s hard to gauge. I’ll have to look at last year’s film.

The offense looked a lot different with Sefo but it’s hard to tell how much of that is Montez vs Liufau and how much is Lindgren vs Chev

 

[manhattanbuff]

Yeah I’ll have to take a look at this. He has so few attempts over the middle this year that it’s hard to gauge. I’ll have to look at last year’s film.

The offense looked a lot different with Sefo but it’s hard to tell how much of that is Montez vs Liufau and how much is Lindgren vs Chev

Here’s what I found:

1. Montez throws these routes behind the receivers. Even if there’s a catch, the gain is minimal.

2. Montez attempts these throws without much touch because his protection breaks down so quickly and his overall sense of depth perception is not great in these routes.

I’m not absolving Chev. He can improve for sure. I just think we have a unique situation with OL quality being one of the worst in the P5. You can sense they’ve really try to force the run game against these light boxes to mild success. It ends up stalling when we can’t run even against 5-6 man fronts.

 

[jumped ship]

I asked the same questions as you. That’s why I broke down the film. Montez is very physically gifted but has significant limitations in seeing defenses and making throws in the middle of the field. The game plan is complicated by the players. I won’t repost about the effect our disaster OL has on the scheme.

Lytle threw an absolute dime over the top to Winfree on that fourth down conversion against Utah.

Granted he then followed it up with a bad interception, but that's such a constant with our backup QBs that methinks it's on the coaching staff for not putting them in a position to get live-action experience in a lower pressure situation.

On the coaching topic, I want someone with endurance who can finish out a season...I was at the Alamo bowl after '16, the team I saw then was not top 25 that's for damn sure. For the past decade our teams have been limping down the home stretch in games that matter (with the exception being against Utah and Wazzu in 2016 but those were at home and all factors favored the Buffs).

 

[Buffnik]

Lytle threw an absolute dime over the top to Winfree on that fourth down conversion against Utah.

Granted he then followed it up with a bad interception, but that's such a constant with our backup QBs that methinks it's on the coaching staff for not putting them in a position to get live-action experience in a lower pressure situation.

On the coaching topic, I want someone with endurance who can finish out a season...I was at the Alamo bowl after '16, the team I saw then was not top 25 that's for damn sure. For the past decade our teams have been limping down the home stretch in games that matter (with the exception being against Utah and Wazzu in 2016 but those were at home and all factors favored the Buffs).

At least part of the problem, I think, is that we don’t have enough depth. Guys wear down. And, particularly, our QBs take too much of a beating. Consider Sefo’s passing in the first 2 or 3 games of a season (or coming back from injury after resting a couple weeks during a season). He’s a different guy.

 

[skibum]

For the past decade our teams have been limping down the home stretch in games that matter.

There is a single cause for this symptom:

Systemic lack of depth.

Colorado's lack of depth has come from about five factors:

1. Poor recruiting
2. Poor recruiting
3. Poor recruiting
4. Failure to get developing guys meaningful snaps.
5. Poor recruiting

 

[jumped ship]

At least part of the problem, I think, is that we don’t have enough depth. Guys wear down. And, particularly, our QBs take too much of a beating. Consider Sefo’s passing in the first 2 or 3 games of a season (or coming back from injury after resting a couple weeks during a season). He’s a different guy.

Agreed. Mac also showed a lack of resilience as the losses/injuries start to pile up that exacerbates it...Utah this season is a perfect example of how to come into a game when you lose a QB and RB...just lean on your big boy O-Line

 

[manhattanbuff]

Lytle threw an absolute dime over the top to Winfree on that fourth down conversion against Utah.

Granted he then followed it up with a bad interception, but that's such a constant with our backup QBs that methinks it's on the coaching staff for not putting them in a position to get live-action experience in a lower pressure situation.

On the coaching topic, I want someone with endurance who can finish out a season...I was at the Alamo bowl after '16, the team I saw then was not top 25 that's for damn sure. For the past decade our teams have been limping down the home stretch in games that matter (with the exception being against Utah and Wazzu in 2016 but those were at home and all factors favored the Buffs).

One of the reasons I was hoping for Montez to move on because of his success this season is that I see Lytle as being capable of making throws to all parts of the field. His first real action in a super slick bad weather game is not a good indicator of his upside.

 

[ahoelsken]

When the game was in the 4th quarter Reid was telling EB what play to call, and EB was relaying it to the QB. I don't have a feeling one way or another toward the guy, but he isn't a P5 head coach. But he is learning from one of the great offensive minds in the game, and at some point Im sure he will be in a place where he is the sole play caller and/or a head coach. But he isn't the play caller in KC, at least not when it matters most.

Reid was probably doing that with Matt Nagy before he left for Chicago. EB will get his shot at an NFL gig after the season-especially with the performance of that offense. I don't think he's a serious candidate here.

 

[BerkeleyBuff]

Lytle threw an absolute dime over the top to Winfree on that fourth down conversion against Utah.

Granted he then followed it up with a bad interception, but that's such a constant with our backup QBs that methinks it's on the coaching staff for not putting them in a position to get live-action experience in a lower pressure situation.

On the coaching topic, I want someone with endurance who can finish out a season...I was at the Alamo bowl after '16, the team I saw then was not top 25 that's for damn sure. For the past decade our teams have been limping down the home stretch in games that matter (with the exception being against Utah and Wazzu in 2016 but those were at home and all factors favored the Buffs).

I was also at the Alamo Bowl. Thank god so many margaritas were nearby.

 

[ZandiBuff]

Lytle threw an absolute dime over the top to Winfree on that fourth down conversion against Utah.

Granted he then followed it up with a bad interception, but that's such a constant with our backup QBs that methinks it's on the coaching staff for not putting them in a position to get live-action experience in a lower pressure situation.

On the coaching topic, I want someone with endurance who can finish out a season...I was at the Alamo bowl after '16, the team I saw then was not top 25 that's for damn sure. For the past decade our teams have been limping down the home stretch in games that matter (with the exception being against Utah and Wazzu in 2016 but those were at home and all factors favored the Buffs).

So, what you're saying is that a backup QBs first throws shouldn't be in Nov, in the snow, in a game you're losing by 17+, with no OL?

that's weird.

 

[slider]

I was also at the Alamo Bowl but I barely remember it