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Official Pac-12 Championship Buffs vs. Washington Score Prediction Thread

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Missing the point ... it's not belittling the work that was done in those games. What it is saying is that against comparable competition Colorado's defense was giving up north of 4 yards per carry ... so when you look at a defense that is giving up on average 4 yards less per carry on the year and using that as the basis of measuring a team's quality, the question is whether or not that is representative or not.

Yards per Carry Against Colorado:

Michigan: 4.1 yards per carry
Oregon: 4.8 yards per carry
USC: 4.4 yards per carry
Utah: 4.4 yards per carry

Perhaps a better series of questions:

1) Do you expect that Colorado will hold UW under 4 yards per carry tomorrow?
2) If not, do you expect that Colorado will hold UW under 4.5 yards per carry tomorrow?
 
Just made Utah's Williams a non-factor.

Actually, he was a big factor: forced 2 strip fumbles off him.
Tequila would argue that we didn't have to simultaneously shut down elite receivers with an efficient and accurate quarterback.

How do you respond?
 
His points were dumb, especially with the run defense. So if you take out the five worst teams on the schedule, they are worse against the run. No ****.

I didn't say I agreed. But he shared what he was thinking in a clear (albeit wordy) way. Basically he thinks that we've been able to shut down one-dimensional offenses with a one-dimensional (at a time) defense. He believes that the Huskies are not only more talented across the board, but multi-dimensional. He believes that The Buffs will fail when forced to simultaneously cover the run and pass.

I guess we'll know a lot more in just over 24 hours.

In fairness, the length was due to supporting the position and trying to not come off on post #1 as a trolling opposition fan that says that "we're going to kill you because you suck" ...

I like a lot of what Colorado is doing ... I was saying in early October that I thought that Colorado was going to win the South ...

I also think that the PAC has in general been down a bit this year. Looking around the conference there are a lot of teams that I feel fall under the realm of being one trick ponies ... there are times this year that UW's inflexibility to change what they are doing defensively based on the opposition has probably hurt it at times (notably Arizona).

If I'm being honest, in a normal year I would view Colorado as about an 8-4 team ... which given where Colorado was going into the year would still be a very, very strong year for where Colorado is in building the program back up.

A strong Colorado (and Utah) is good for the PAC and a good counter-balance to what happens in the South in SoCal. I have little expectation for the Arizona schools for the foreseeable future.
 
Tequila would argue that we didn't have to simultaneously shut down elite receivers with an efficient and accurate quarterback.

How do you respond?
Exactly ...
In conference Troy Williams completed 50.2% of his passes. In 5 of his 9 conference games, he completed 50% or less of his passes in a game.
 
Tequila would argue that we didn't have to simultaneously shut down elite receivers with an efficient and accurate quarterback.

How do you respond?

That Washington is clearly the greatest team ever assembled and has the added benefit of the greatest coaching staff in college football.

I don't understand how USC whipped them in their building or why they needed 3 uncalled clips to score a game saving punt return against Utah or why they had so much trouble with Arizona. I guess when you're that good you just have days when you're disinterested.
 
That Washington is clearly the greatest team ever assembled and has the added benefit of the greatest coaching staff in college football.

I don't understand how USC whipped them in their building or why they needed 3 uncalled clips to score a game saving punt return against Utah or why they had so much trouble with Arizona. I guess when you're that good you just have days when you're disinterested.
I award you no points.
 
I award you no points.

I just hope that CU can score some. Absolutely no weaknesses on that team. I mean, just look at the All Pac-12 1st Team. CU had a nice little season and some guys got some accolades, but clearly 2nd best at every position.
 
I do tend to agree that the Pac 12 is down this year, and CU has benefitted from that. We needed that to gain exposure. I'd also suggest that UW benefitted from a down Pac. Nice to see them finally get a win from the Ducks.
 
That Washington is clearly the greatest team ever assembled and has the added benefit of the greatest coaching staff in college football.

I don't understand how USC whipped them in their building or why they needed 3 uncalled clips to score a game saving punt return against Utah or why they had so much trouble with Arizona. I guess when you're that good you just have days when you're disinterested.

1) USC improved greatly over the course of the year ... particularly Darnold. SC probably played their best game of the year and they absolutely won the LOS against UW's offense. The only team to make UW one dimensional all year. On that day, they were the better team. It's hard to go undefeated in this conference ... there's a reason why nobody has in a long time.

2) Sounds like a Ute complaining about the punt return TD against Utah ... during the broadcast Mike Pierria said that none of those blocks were penalties. And if you want to get too critical on the penalty front, right before the punt return there was a missed holding call in the end zone that would have led to a safety. Additionally, there's nothing to say that even with a penalty Washington doesn't move the ball on a short field into a position to get a score and win the game. The game wasn't won or lost because of there being a call or not there.

3) Arizona's ability with Dawkins to attack on the edge of our defense ... notably Psalm Wooching ... was a massive problem. Some adjustments were made and outside of a couple of real broken plays in the 2nd half, Arizona's offense was shut down. The real reason that game was even close was because the UW offense was in Arizona territory 5 times without getting any kind of score. That's absolutely insane. Also important to point out that this is also part of the reason why you have to factor in when a team played and realize that teams change during the year. At the time, it was the first conference game of the year and Arizona was plotting this game as a big statement game for them. As the year progressed and the injuries mounted, their will drained significantly.

Nobody is saying that UW is the greatest team ever. Just looking at comparative strengths and weaknesses of each team and how they matchup with each other. For example, I would say that Washington St. could cause some significant matchup problems for a lot of teams in this conference and around the nation. But Washington is an absolutely TERRIBLE matchup for them. That has nothing to do with the school I support or not ... just like I thought going into the USC game that there was a lot to worry about heading into the game.
 
It was good to end the streak against Oregon ... the ascension of UW this year I could have made a real strong case for it back in August. Seeing Oregon fall back wasn't a surprise ... the magnitude for sure was.

Probably the biggest surprise to me in the conference this year was USC ... I actually thought that they'd be a disaster ... I didn't have a very strong opinion of Clay Helton as I thought he was in over his head.
 
Just made Utah's Williams a non-factor.

Actually, he was a big factor: forced 2 strip fumbles off him.
Seriously. For all the build up about him, he was nothing. At no point was he a threat to take over the game, despite Utes best efforts at feeding him the ball.
 
In fairness, the length was due to supporting the position and trying to not come off on post #1 as a trolling opposition fan that says that "we're going to kill you because you suck" ...

I like a lot of what Colorado is doing ... I was saying in early October that I thought that Colorado was going to win the South ...

I also think that the PAC has in general been down a bit this year. Looking around the conference there are a lot of teams that I feel fall under the realm of being one trick ponies ... there are times this year that UW's inflexibility to change what they are doing defensively based on the opposition has probably hurt it at times (notably Arizona).

If I'm being honest, in a normal year I would view Colorado as about an 8-4 team ... which given where Colorado was going into the year would still be a very, very strong year for where Colorado is in building the program back up.

A strong Colorado (and Utah) is good for the PAC and a good counter-balance to what happens in the South in SoCal. I have little expectation for the Arizona schools for the foreseeable future.
Where is UW in a normal year?
 
I do tend to agree that the Pac 12 is down this year, and CU has benefitted from that. We needed that to gain exposure. I'd also suggest that UW benefitted from a down Pac. Nice to see them finally get a win from the Ducks.

It would be nice to see at least one Husky fan admit that their division was down too, and that they benefitted from that as well.

Kind of annoying how they keep going to the whole "well, if the South was better...." thing, when the 2/3 of the North was a dumpster fire at least for large parts of the season. Actually 5 of 6, if you include WSU's inauspicious start to the season.
 
It would be nice to see at least one Husky fan admit that their division was down too, and that they benefitted from that as well.

Kind of annoying how they keep going to the whole "well, if the South was better...." thing, when the 2/3 of the North was a dumpster fire at least for large parts of the season. Actually 5 of 6, if you include WSU's inauspicious start to the season.
Kind of reminds me of when we were dismissed during the MBB championship run. Hopefully this has the same outcome tomorrow night.
 
I expect the CU run defense to allow udub to rush for about 4ish yards per carry. If udub is going to focus on the run, that is okay with me. Most of udub's offense comes from shot plays. We've done well there.

One thing I found fascinating is your use of YPC instead of YPA. Teams try to test our secondary because we show so many 1v1 matchups. Sometimes we'll roll a safety to bracket a big play target, though that is less common. Teams will complete passes down the field when we've shut them down and we're in a prevent zone D. When you look at YPA, we're at 5.4 for the season. That's tied for best in the FBS with Ohio State & Michigan. We're top 30 in total attempts against. We have more than 100 more attempts against than UM or tOSU. Udub hasn't seen any pass defenses that good. They've been mostly in the bottom 1/3 of the FBS.

We won't put 8 in the box much. Mostly 7 with the slot corners tackling edge runners. Where udub should have concern is the coverage sack. Getting behind schedule is how our defense lives. Browning won't have his normal time to find receivers since most won't be open all too often.

You are right that special teams are definitive. As long as we don't give up anything major in the kicking game, we'll be fine. If we give up a special teams TD or bad Field Position often, udub will win. I am curious to see how udub reacts to our running game. I don't view it as an advantage for washington since udub hasn't stopped anyone good on the ground. That's actually a huge part of our offense.

Missing the point ... it's not belittling the work that was done in those games. What it is saying is that against comparable competition Colorado's defense was giving up north of 4 yards per carry ... so when you look at a defense that is giving up on average 4 yards less per carry on the year and using that as the basis of measuring a team's quality, the question is whether or not that is representative or not.

Yards per Carry Against Colorado:

Michigan: 4.1 yards per carry
Oregon: 4.8 yards per carry
USC: 4.4 yards per carry
Utah: 4.4 yards per carry

Perhaps a better series of questions:

1) Do you expect that Colorado will hold UW under 4 yards per carry tomorrow?
2) If not, do you expect that Colorado will hold UW under 4.5 yards per carry tomorrow?
 
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You're bold, I'll give you that.
 
I expect the CU run defense to allow udub to rush for about 4ish yards per carry. If udub is going to focus on the run, that is okay with me. Most of udub's offense comes from shot plays. We've done well there.

One thing I found fascinating is your use of YPC instead of YPA. Teams try to test our secondary because we show so many 1v1 matchups. Sometimes we'll roll a safety to bracket a big play target, though that is less common. Teams will complete passes down the field when we've shut them down and we're in a prevent zone D. When you look at YPA, we're at 5.4 for the season. That's tied for best in the FBS with Ohio State & Michigan. We're top 30 in total attempts against. We have more than 100 more attempts against than UM or tOSU. Udub hasn't seen any pass defenses that good. They've been mostly in the bottom 1/3 of the FBS.

We won't put 8 in the box much. Mostly 7 with the slot corners tackling edge runners. Where udub should have concern is the coverage sack. Getting behind schedule is how our defense lives. Browning won't have his normal time to find receivers since most won't be open all too often.

You are right that special teams are definitive. As long as we don't give up anything major in the kicking game, we'll be fine. If we give up a special teams TD or bad Field Position often, udub will win. I am curious to see how udub reacts to our running game. I don't view it as an advantage for washington since udub hasn't stopped anyone good on the ground. That's actually a huge part of our offense.

Just out of curiosity, how many UW games have you watched this year?

A couple of things with the way that I look at metrics ... first, I look primarily at conference games in trying to compare teams in conference ... it's apples to apples that way. Part of the reason that I also look at YPC and YPA is because I want to see what kind of explosive play potential you are getting in the passing game. In conference, the Buffs rank 3rd in yards per attempt (behind UCLA and UW) but 7th in yards per attempt. That tells me that there are opportunities for big plays when you make a completion and that matches what I saw with the coverage ... press short and intermediate while forcing shots over the top. I haven't seen much of Colorado playing in prevent ... if they are it's likely in the games where they are up big playing inferior teams. By and large the YPC has been in the 12-13 yard range for most of the games for Colorado. Actually, UW and Colorado are basically identical in yards per attempt in the passing game at 6 yards per attempt. The big difference is that UW gives up on average about 2 yards less per completion as predominately teams are forced to throw check downs on UW without the ability to hit explosive plays over the top ... that stems from IMO UW trusting their athletic talent and fundamentals to come up and make tackles whereas Colorado plays more aggressively. Both strategies have worked well for each respective team. Come tomorrow night though, the data would tell me that UW has the better chance to make explosive plays in the passing game.

Regarding UW not seeing a pass defense like Colorado, the metrics would tell me that USC is very comparable in the passing game. I'd definitely say that USC's CBs are more athletic than Colorado's ... and that's not slighting Colorado's DBs. The biggest issue that UW had against USC was their inability to run the ball that turned them 1 dimensional as UW had 27 carries for 17 yards and got hurt with sacks. It was definitely a below average passing game at 17 for 37 for 259 (7 yards per attempt, 15.2 yards per completion). It wouldn't shock me tomorrow if Browning's completion percentage was in the 50-55% range ... the bigger question is whether or not the yards per completion though is in the 14-16 yard range (on the season in conference UW is averaging 15.3 yards per completion).

From what I've seen of Colorado's front, I don't think that they'll be successful 7 on 7 in the run game. I could be wrong ... but if Colorado doesn't bring an 8th man down to the box to account for the RB I don't see a lot of success for them in trying to slow down the run game with 7 in the box versus 7 run blockers in 2 TE sets. With the exception of the USC game, UW in conference has run for at minimum a 4.8 yard per carry average. You mention the coverage sack ... and that's worth discussion. Browning has shown an ability to step up in the pocket and extend plays ... it often can create a number of explosive plays. I don't disagree with you that if Colorado can get you behind the chains that that's where their defense has shown the ability to be very successful and turnovers become an issue. To me, it's one of the primary reasons why UW needs to make sure that they are fully embracing the run game and stay in situations where they are no worse than 3rd and 7 or less ... anything in that range puts you in a spot that it's a doable pickup with something as simple as a quick slant or out route.

The part where I am a little confused is saying that UW hasn't stopped a good running game ... clearly haven't watched UW play. Stanford is all about the run game ... 30 carries for 29 yards. USC was 3.1 yards per carry. Utah was at 4.5 yards per carry ... Troy Williams had a series of nice scrambles that helped (and I consider Troy much more mobile than Sefo). The problem when looking at our run stats is understanding context of the game. If you look at what Oregon did on the ground to UW, it looks nice. They also lost 70-21 and a lot of those yards came in the 2nd half. Oregon St ran the ball 30 times for 177 yards ... pretty sure 75 of those yards came on a fly sweep in the 2nd half of a game that was in bed by halftime. Running the ball has not been a successful strategy against UW unless you basically have an elite athlete at the QB position ... which Sefo isn't.
 
Pretty sure if Washington had played a top 10 team on the road in non-conference, they'd be sitting at 10-2 right now as well. This game is very even.
 
Pretty sure if Washington had played a top 10 team on the road in non-conference, they'd be sitting at 10-2 right now as well. This game is very even.

Or that CU would be 11-1 if we'd played Rutgers at home instead of Michigan on the road.

Actually, we might be 12-0 since if you change the game you likely change the fact that our defensive captain at OLB and our Kicker don't go down to season-ending injuries that week with our QB was lost for 3 weeks.
 
I find it so amusing when our posters pick against the Buffs in this thread. Like they're providing some semblance of reason or somber reality. Is that so if we lose they feel like they can say, "welp, I saw that coming." I don't see the upside.

30-27 Buffs
 
I've watched 9 udub games this year -- all of the conference games. See, I don't look at the games like a homer. As the saying goes, I "put my money where my mouth is" if you catch my drift.

Here's what I've seen from udub... great team speed. Quick team who makes up for technical deficiencies with pace. Untested. Udub has been fortunate to not really play many good, healthy teams. Cake non conference all at home. Shaky against anyone who shows competence.

How many CU games have you watched?

I doubt the number to be very high. Otherwise, you'd be a lot more concerned since udub has had great difficulties against above average defenses. Hidden within your copious notes is the assumption that CU's players simply aren't very good or fundamentally sound. Teams have made this mistake this season. The metrics disagree with your notion that we don't have highly skilled players or that we can't game plan to confuse your relatively inexperienced QB. You mentioned the USC game. We have a better defense than USC. Why wouldn't you envision problems? Just because you use flawed metrics and assume we aren't athletic or skilled....

Interesting you mention Stanford. I'd hardly compare us to them since their passing attack is extremely remedial. It's pretty easy to stop a one dimensional team, especially one who has a piss poor receiving group.

You're set with the YPC metric, which is a bad one. If a team sees a ton of volume (as both teams have) the better route would be to look at their effiency in denying catches. We'll have to disagree about how we play defense since your concept is based in some awful assumptions noted above.

I also think that your preference here exists to cover up for the fact that udub concedes far more completions than Colorado. Even including the cupcakes, udub allows >10% higher completion percentage per game. At a clip of a 1/2 yard more per attempt than Colorado, I'd say it's the udub defense who ought to be concerned with explosive plays.

I'd also have great concern since we don't let teams complete passes at a high rate (<49%). Picking up first downs on throws Browning makes against scrubs will probably not be available tonight. You're mistaken to think Browning will automatically complete 55% of his passes. Think more like 49-50% for 5ish per attempt.

Just out of curiosity, how many UW games have you watched this year?

A couple of things with the way that I look at metrics ... first, I look primarily at conference games in trying to compare teams in conference ... it's apples to apples that way. Part of the reason that I also look at YPC and YPA is because I want to see what kind of explosive play potential you are getting in the passing game. In conference, the Buffs rank 3rd in yards per attempt (behind UCLA and UW) but 7th in yards per attempt. That tells me that there are opportunities for big plays when you make a completion and that matches what I saw with the coverage ... press short and intermediate while forcing shots over the top. I haven't seen much of Colorado playing in prevent ... if they are it's likely in the games where they are up big playing inferior teams. By and large the YPC has been in the 12-13 yard range for most of the games for Colorado. Actually, UW and Colorado are basically identical in yards per attempt in the passing game at 6 yards per attempt. The big difference is that UW gives up on average about 2 yards less per completion as predominately teams are forced to throw check downs on UW without the ability to hit explosive plays over the top ... that stems from IMO UW trusting their athletic talent and fundamentals to come up and make tackles whereas Colorado plays more aggressively. Both strategies have worked well for each respective team. Come tomorrow night though, the data would tell me that UW has the better chance to make explosive plays in the passing game.

Regarding UW not seeing a pass defense like Colorado, the metrics would tell me that USC is very comparable in the passing game. I'd definitely say that USC's CBs are more athletic than Colorado's ... and that's not slighting Colorado's DBs. The biggest issue that UW had against USC was their inability to run the ball that turned them 1 dimensional as UW had 27 carries for 17 yards and got hurt with sacks. It was definitely a below average passing game at 17 for 37 for 259 (7 yards per attempt, 15.2 yards per completion). It wouldn't shock me tomorrow if Browning's completion percentage was in the 50-55% range ... the bigger question is whether or not the yards per completion though is in the 14-16 yard range (on the season in conference UW is averaging 15.3 yards per completion).

From what I've seen of Colorado's front, I don't think that they'll be successful 7 on 7 in the run game. I could be wrong ... but if Colorado doesn't bring an 8th man down to the box to account for the RB I don't see a lot of success for them in trying to slow down the run game with 7 in the box versus 7 run blockers in 2 TE sets. With the exception of the USC game, UW in conference has run for at minimum a 4.8 yard per carry average. You mention the coverage sack ... and that's worth discussion. Browning has shown an ability to step up in the pocket and extend plays ... it often can create a number of explosive plays. I don't disagree with you that if Colorado can get you behind the chains that that's where their defense has shown the ability to be very successful and turnovers become an issue. To me, it's one of the primary reasons why UW needs to make sure that they are fully embracing the run game and stay in situations where they are no worse than 3rd and 7 or less ... anything in that range puts you in a spot that it's a doable pickup with something as simple as a quick slant or out route.

The part where I am a little confused is saying that UW hasn't stopped a good running game ... clearly haven't watched UW play. Stanford is all about the run game ... 30 carries for 29 yards. USC was 3.1 yards per carry. Utah was at 4.5 yards per carry ... Troy Williams had a series of nice scrambles that helped (and I consider Troy much more mobile than Sefo). The problem when looking at our run stats is understanding context of the game. If you look at what Oregon did on the ground to UW, it looks nice. They also lost 70-21 and a lot of those yards came in the 2nd half. Oregon St ran the ball 30 times for 177 yards ... pretty sure 75 of those yards came on a fly sweep in the 2nd half of a game that was in bed by halftime. Running the ball has not been a successful strategy against UW unless you basically have an elite athlete at the QB position ... which Sefo isn't.
 
I've watched 9 udub games this year -- all of the conference games. See, I don't look at the games like a homer. As the saying goes, I "put my money where my mouth is" if you catch my drift.

Here's what I've seen from udub... great team speed. Quick team who makes up for technical deficiencies with pace. Untested. Udub has been fortunate to not really play many good, healthy teams. Cake non conference all at home. Shaky against anyone who shows competence.

How many CU games have you watched?

I doubt the number to be very high. Otherwise, you'd be a lot more concerned since udub has had great difficulties against above average defenses. Hidden within your copious notes is the assumption that CU's players simply aren't very good or fundamentally sound. Teams have made this mistake this season. The metrics disagree with your notion that we don't have highly skilled players or that we can't game plan to confuse your relatively inexperienced QB. You mentioned the USC game. We have a better defense than USC. Why wouldn't you envision problems? Just because you use flawed metrics and assume we aren't athletic or skilled....

Interesting you mention Stanford. I'd hardly compare us to them since their passing attack is extremely remedial. It's pretty easy to stop a one dimensional team, especially one who has a piss poor receiving group.

You're set with the YPC metric, which is a bad one. If a team sees a ton of volume (as both teams have) the better route would be to look at their effiency in denying catches. We'll have to disagree about how we play defense since your concept is based in some awful assumptions noted above.

I also think that your preference here exists to cover up for the fact that udub concedes far more completions than Colorado. Even including the cupcakes, udub allows >10% higher completion percentage per game. At a clip of a 1/2 yard more per attempt than Colorado, I'd say it's the udub defense who ought to be concerned with explosive plays.

I'd also have great concern since we don't let teams complete passes at a high rate (<49%). Picking up first downs on throws Browning makes against scrubs will probably not be available tonight. You're mistaken to think Browning will automatically complete 55% of his passes. Think more like 49-50% for 5ish per attempt.
Big Apple to the Face!!
 
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