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We now take you to Ann Arbor Michigan
- Thread starter skibum
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My first thought was that it happens everywhere, but there's no way there are things this involved going on everywhere. This is just way too complex and spread out. Just like this one couldn't, operations this complex can't be kept quiet for long.
As far as Harbaugh goes - there's no way he didn't know. That guy is a control freak. The idea of someone doing something like this within the program without his knowledge is absurd.
I will say though - I wouldn't put too much stock in what opposing coaches have to say. They have a vested interest in Harbaugh getting canned, if for no other reason than hoping to poach some transfers. You can't take the fact that not many people seem to like him out of the equation either. Even anonymously, they benefit from feeding the flames. Stoops, being out of the game is a different matter, but I question his motivations too. That's not to say that their opinions aren't viable, I just don't really buy all of the outrage.
It's his program, he is supposed to know what is going on, especially something out of the norm like this. Did he think the information just magically appeared.
And this isn't baseball with 162 games in a regular season. If cheating wins you another 5 games it probably isn't going to have a big impact on you or your opponents.
In college football one game matters. Had Michigan lost one of the games that the cheated to win are they in the playoff or are they saying wait until next year to win the division or league? Is it Ohio State there instead or some other team?
I do question how big Michigan's penalty will be. I tend to doubt that it will be harsh. The NCAA is in a precarious position re big time college football and rule enforcement. Even in a situation like this where (most) everyone agrees that rules were broken and something has to be done, the Big Ten and Fox are going to want to protect one of their two biggest programs. I would bet the pressure will be on the NCAA to make it something that Michigan can get over relatively quickly.
It's a big ****ing deal. The CFB world is justified to be outraged.
The B1G is the entity that will have to do something in the near term, and they have 17 other programs, including the more successful program in their conference, along with other programs in the ACC and SEC (along with the conference commissioners) to appease as well. The sport of college football is bigger than Michigan and Fox, NBC, CBS and ESPN know this (as does everybody else). There simply can't be any doubt that the integrity of these games have been compromised.
I'm not really saying that it's not a big deal, I'm just questioning the authenticity of the levels of outrage from other D1 coaches.
The way TV has acted in the last decade in their involvement with college football, I'm cynical as **** about them. I can totally see them going into 'protect our investment' mode. Especially Fox.
I'm sure he'd say the exact same thing if it was tOSU implicated.
LOLing at the posts that take Prime literally.
Prime has a brand. A big part of that brand is: I am not a whining, punk-ass bitch. Does Prime know that the hit on Hunter in the CSU game was a cheap shot? Yes. Is gonna complain about it like 90% of college coaches would? No. Why? Because he's not a punk-ass bitch.
Prime is always going to say that your future is up to you, that you control what happens--no matter what others do. What he said about those douchebags at Michigan was just reiterating his philosophy. It shouldn't be taken as anything more.
Prime has a brand. A big part of that brand is: I am not a whining, punk-ass bitch. Does Prime know that the hit on Hunter in the CSU game was a cheap shot? Yes. Is gonna complain about it like 90% of college coaches would? No. Why? Because he's not a punk-ass bitch.
Prime is always going to say that your future is up to you, that you control what happens--no matter what others do. What he said about those douchebags at Michigan was just reiterating his philosophy. It shouldn't be taken as anything more.
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In a similar vein, I just heard the Dolphins coach say something about how many people waste time worrying over how things are unfair in life.
Definitely a message of "control what you can control & deal with what life throws at you" rather than a message of cheating not being a problem that those in authority need to address.
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There definitely seem to be some faction out to get Harbaugh, and he probably deserves it. I don't think there's any way he didn't know this was going on.
That said, regardless of the feigned outrage by all of the anonymous opposing coaches and staffers that the competitive advantage gained from this SHOULD be minimal. The basic fact is that sign stealing is legal along with film study, trend analysis and other analytics that teams are doing these days. Assuming that Michigan knew all of an opponents signals going into a game AND that they actually used that knowledge form play one, any competent team should know that thier signals were compromised on drive one. If Michigan was smarter and used that knowledge sparingly to try to hide it, the opponent should know that they're compromised the first time that Michigan's sideline and DC go nuts signaling in a new play after you send in your play or adjust or your offense hears their players call out the play that's coming. Having direct tape of the sidelines certainly helps, but any team that gives even half a **** about winning has coaches and GAs poring over film study to decipher signals and should have a coach or GA on the sidelines specifically to watch the other team and decipher signals. Likewise, there should be a coach or GA watching trends for your offense and getting in the coaches ear that your offensive signals have been cracked.
Based on the same articles with anonymous sources, this has been an open secret for at least a year and likley longer. If you played Michigan and didn't change your signals, it's either lazienss, cockiness or incompetance, but either way, it's on Michigan's opponent for not accounting for it. If you are playing ANY team, let alone Michigan, and you're not accounting for or watching for someone who has figured out your signals DURING the game, it's on you. If you get even an inkling that your opponent has figured out your signals and you don't have a backup plan, again, it's on you. While a fan may not notice, Michigan wasn't shy about having a guy next to the DC "helping out". If that didn't give your coaches a clue that you need to change signals, your team needs to find a new coach. Any competant coaching staff should have a backup plan to change signals, whether it's going to wristbands, changing the active caller, or even just relaying the play in with a player. It's not hard to do and not doing it is just lazy.
To believe that this affected any significant game is just faux outrage. To think that competent, experienced coaches like Day, Dykes, Franklin and others didn't at least suspect this and account for it in their game plans is just lazy reporting (or lazy coaching).
That said, regardless of the feigned outrage by all of the anonymous opposing coaches and staffers that the competitive advantage gained from this SHOULD be minimal. The basic fact is that sign stealing is legal along with film study, trend analysis and other analytics that teams are doing these days. Assuming that Michigan knew all of an opponents signals going into a game AND that they actually used that knowledge form play one, any competent team should know that thier signals were compromised on drive one. If Michigan was smarter and used that knowledge sparingly to try to hide it, the opponent should know that they're compromised the first time that Michigan's sideline and DC go nuts signaling in a new play after you send in your play or adjust or your offense hears their players call out the play that's coming. Having direct tape of the sidelines certainly helps, but any team that gives even half a **** about winning has coaches and GAs poring over film study to decipher signals and should have a coach or GA on the sidelines specifically to watch the other team and decipher signals. Likewise, there should be a coach or GA watching trends for your offense and getting in the coaches ear that your offensive signals have been cracked.
Based on the same articles with anonymous sources, this has been an open secret for at least a year and likley longer. If you played Michigan and didn't change your signals, it's either lazienss, cockiness or incompetance, but either way, it's on Michigan's opponent for not accounting for it. If you are playing ANY team, let alone Michigan, and you're not accounting for or watching for someone who has figured out your signals DURING the game, it's on you. If you get even an inkling that your opponent has figured out your signals and you don't have a backup plan, again, it's on you. While a fan may not notice, Michigan wasn't shy about having a guy next to the DC "helping out". If that didn't give your coaches a clue that you need to change signals, your team needs to find a new coach. Any competant coaching staff should have a backup plan to change signals, whether it's going to wristbands, changing the active caller, or even just relaying the play in with a player. It's not hard to do and not doing it is just lazy.
To believe that this affected any significant game is just faux outrage. To think that competent, experienced coaches like Day, Dykes, Franklin and others didn't at least suspect this and account for it in their game plans is just lazy reporting (or lazy coaching).
But their investment is the B1G, not Michigan. Obviously Michigan is a big part of that, but the 17 other programs are going to want their pound of flesh and for the conference to take action to ensure this doesn't go unpunished. Also, I don't know what the TV networks are going to do here. Bribe the NCAA to not take action and risk an even bigger scandal? Highly doubt that.
Also, the CFP can also take action. They are separate from the NCAA and an invite only tournament that theoretically can invite whoever they want. Are they going to select Michigan this year with the entire country knowing that their success is tainted?
My take is that it is going to be hard for the NCAA to pin down how they actually broke a rule. The staffer may have purchased the tickets, but obviously didn't attend all the games (he was on the sideline for UM's games). So the question is, who attended those games and were those people actually covered under the rule, which is pretty specific to athletic department staff members. The rule in the football rule book doesn't apply because none of what was alleged occurred at a game that UM was playing in and the football rules only apply to game administration. So we are just looking at rules in the D1 manual.
I think this the outrage is overblown and UM found a tactical advantage in the rules as written. Some just don't like that they were blatant about it.
I think this the outrage is overblown and UM found a tactical advantage in the rules as written. Some just don't like that they were blatant about it.
I'm going to need a little more outrage from you.
A) agree with all
2) of you’re the head coach of a football team, and your D is in the absolute right position on EVERY play, and your O calls the EXACT right play every time, at some point don’t you go, “hey guys, awesome, what’s your secret?”
I’d like to hear from Dan Lanning
So you don’t see a difference in trying to steal signs DURING a game and/or stealing signs from whatever film you have (that is not focused solely on the coach sending in signals and close ups of their play card…and PRE SCOUTING at a game for use in a future game. Cool cool cool cool cool
I still say CU will end up losing Scholarships over this!
Post game tunnels gonna be lit.
Nope, I don’t see a difference at all. Regardless of how an opponent may get your signs, if you can’t figure out that the opponent has your signs, or if you’re too cocky/lazy to do anything about it, you deserve the L. There are enough ways for an opposing coach to make that a non-factor or even use it to their advantage, as is coming out now with Dykes using decoy signals in the playoff game. Very simply put, if an opposing coach got got by the Michigan scheme, that opposing coach is either lazy, ignorant or a poor understaffed school where Michigan didn’t need the advantage anyway.
For all of the money involved in college sports these days, it’s baffling to me that people actually believe that opposing coaches were going into games with no idea what Michigan was doing and just didn’t account for it.
And when you say “whatever film you have”, you’re talking YEARS of game film, all 22, every play a coach has called. That’s not insignificant.
I don't know if this is connected or separate.
Weiss has been with the Harbaugh brothers since he was a GA at Stanford. WTF is going on?
Weiss has been with the Harbaugh brothers since he was a GA at Stanford. WTF is going on?
Holy ****! CSU was right! The FBI does investigate football crimes!
No idea where this is going to lead but it isn't good for Weiss.
Consider though the implications in terms of football and punishments if Weiss is accessing other schools playbooks and game plans via his computer work.
If that can be shown (and the FBI is pretty good at finding that kind of thing) and it can be shown that the information was making it's way to Harbaugh this gets huge.
Major penalties for Michigan and Harbaugh done as a college coach.