Serious Question about Recruiting

[Brett Fulton]

Also, to the point about why would these kids wait in line at GA, or Bama, rather than come here it also likely has to do with the proximity of the SEC and ACC coaches recruiting them. I live in NC, and I can drive an hour or two and prob see any number of 40 or 50 legitimate DI kids playing football. So if you are balling on Friday night and you see UGA polo shirts in the stands it prob helps facilitate that trust in the recruiting relationship. Not a determining factor I suspect, but just one more factor in addition to several others that have been mentioned.

 

[Bear Fiend]

Then why doesn't everybody flock to Nebraska?

Because Riley isn't there anymore.

 

[hokiehead]

Yep. ASU is around 4% African-American students. The 22% number is the percentage of Hispanic students.

Thanks

 

[manhattanbuff]

So it would seem the demographics are relatively equal across Pac schools. For kids coming from CA, I don't imagine it to be as much of a culture shock as some are playing it up to be, and certainly not all that different from the programs CU is mostly competing with for recruits.

Equal? The California schools have higher percentages of black people AND have access to significantly more diverse surrounding communities than Boulder. The school in the least diverse surrounding area (Stanford) has nearly 2.5x more black people by percentage than Colorado. I don’t see it as equivalent.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

Equal? The California schools have higher percentages of black people AND have access to significantly more diverse surrounding communities than Boulder. The school in the least diverse surrounding area (Stanford) has nearly 2.5x more black people by percentage than Colorado. I don’t see it as equivalent.

Well, pick your argument. Either talk about the demographics of the Universities themselves or talk about the demographics of the surrounding area. The % of black students at various Pac 12 Universities don't seem to vary all that much, but yes, there are more African Americans in CA than CO.

 

[CUAviator]

Why wouldn’t a black person want to go to Boulder?

I went to school in a predominantly white area. Most of my friends are white.

Boulder is very white.

Growing up in a black church, I got a sense about many of the other kids and their comfort levels around white people. In their neighborhoods, they were not exposed to white people who were non authority figures. They didn’t listen to music made by white people. They didn’t watch TV shows with (many) white people in them. Their hobbies didn’t include the triathlon sports or hiking. They didn’t have any white friends.

For many 17-18 year old athletes from parts of the country like the one I described above, going to Boulder can be daunting. Going to school as a black person in Boulder requires an exceptional level of self esteem (contrast with confidence which can be fake).

As of last year’s data, there were 530 black undergraduate students enrolled in Boulder out of 26496. Take away the 60-70 on the football and basketball teams and this does not lead one to believe you’ll find much of a black community on campus. This is a major culture shock for many young people of color.

[Interestingly enough, the percentage of black undergraduates at CU last year (2%) is the same as it was when I was a freshman in 1996-1997].

It’s also a culture shock for a highly rated recruit to show up to CU and be like “what do you mean not everyone on this campus wants to suck my dick? Isn’t football the most important thing around here?”

 

[ahoelsken]

Then why doesn't everybody flock to Nebraska?

Because its a ****hole.

Lets say you're a 4* recruit getting offers from Georgia, Alabama etc as well as CU. Ignoring the possibility of some schools skirting the rules to entice a player to commit, why not choose CU? What is the advantage in going to Georgia for a kid looking to make the NFL? Standouts at any P5 school are going to get noticed by the NFL scouts. Most likely they are going to get a lot more playing time at CU than they would at Georgia. Why would you want to go somewhere where you'll be lost in the depth chart for 2 or 3 years before you really get a shot of real playing time?

A couple things here-The number of stars a kid has is stupid to me (thought so since the Darrell Scott fiasco), but the story about Ty Evans in the post piece that came out a few weeks back really explains why. He said he had a few services offer to bump him to four star (he's a three currently) if he spent more time on the camp circuit. Laviska Shenault was a three star recruit, and he's a Heisman candidate three weeks into this season. That whole thing is dumb. Pay attention to who we're competing with these kids to get and what you see if you watch youtube clips of these recruits, not the stars. If Nick Saban is interested in a Laviska Shenault, chances are pretty good that the young man is a damn good football player.

I think the bigger answer to your question ties into an earlier post that mentioned what a big deal the Nebraska game was for our recruiting-National TV game on a Saturday right in the middle of the day on a channel that every single home in this country has. That's what kids want......especially the kids in Texas we're going after.

 

[manhattanbuff]

Well, pick your argument. Either talk about the demographics of the Universities themselves or talk about the demographics of the surrounding area. The % of black students at various Pac 12 Universities don't seem to vary all that much, but yes, there are more African Americans in CA than CO.

The arguments aren’t different. If you read my original posting, you would’ve noticed that I wrote about the Boulder community AND the school itself. Boulder is extremely white and so is the school. If your individual self esteem isn’t very high and/or you don’t have a lot of experience with white people, Boulder is an intimidating place.

The California schools and surrounding communities are more diverse than Boulder. The best thing Colorado can do to get better athletes to the school is to make the university itself more diverse because the surrounding community doesn’t seem to change much.

 

[CUAviator]

Laviska Shenault was a three star recruit, and he's a Heisman candidate three weeks into this season. That whole thing is dumb. Pay attention to who we're competing with these kids to get and what you see if you watch youtube clips of these recruits, not the stars. If Nick Saban is interested in a Laviska Shenault, chances are pretty good that the young man is a damn good football player.
.

It’s just cool to actually see this in print vice black and colored speculation.

 

[SerenityBuff]

Why wouldn’t a black person want to go to Boulder?

I went to school in a predominantly white area. Most of my friends are white.

Boulder is very white.

Growing up in a black church, I got a sense about many of the other kids and their comfort levels around white people. In their neighborhoods, they were not exposed to white people who were non authority figures. They didn’t listen to music made by white people. They didn’t watch TV shows with (many) white people in them. Their hobbies didn’t include the triathlon sports or hiking. They didn’t have any white friends.

For many 17-18 year old athletes from parts of the country like the one I described above, going to Boulder can be daunting. Going to school as a black person in Boulder requires an exceptional level of self esteem (contrast with confidence which can be fake).

As of last year’s data, there were 530 black undergraduate students enrolled in Boulder out of 26496. Take away the 60-70 on the football and basketball teams and this does not lead one to believe you’ll find much of a black community on campus. This is a major culture shock for many young people of color.

[Interestingly enough, the percentage of black undergraduates at CU last year (2%) is the same as it was when I was a freshman in 1996-1997].

Very true. My wife is Mexican and spent her entire life in a part of Los Angeles that is 96% Hispanic. We went to Boulder for homecoming in 2016 and she couldn't believe how white it was. Outside of seeing Bryce Bobo at IHOP the morning after the game, I don't think we saw one person of color the entire time we were there. As a white person, it's something I can forget or not notice to begin with. But I can see how it could be a difficult adjustment for a young person of color from L.A. or Dallas to come to Boulder.

With that said, I love CU and come play for the Buffs! We have mountains!

 

[ZandiBuff]

Here's my take.

Say you're a beast of a pass rusher. You could go to the Bama, OU, U$Cs of the world and play opposite another, really, really good pass rusher. Offenses can't routinely double team you, or the other guy get you. You get your fair share of stats, TV, looks from scouts.

Instead, you chose to go to CAL / OSU / <insert middling defensive team> - you are still just as good, but now every offense really only has to plan to take you out of the game. They double team you, chip, you, run away from you. Sure, you still look good. But you don't have the stats. You don't play in the major bowl games. You don't make the TV highlights.

That is what we are fighting when we go against the Bamas of the college football world.

 

[steph]

I can understand the cultural issues and being far from home make a difference in a recruits choice. When my son, who grew up in the conservative south, showed up in Boulder as a freshman wearing a make america great again hat he wasn't exactly welcomed with open arms by the kind people of Boulder.

 

[Wyo Buff]

I'm sure he got a lot stronger while at college, but 6'3" 220# as an incoming freshman doesn't sound like a fat kid to me. And I think I heard on Monday Night Football that Mack only played one year of HS football. Which presumably means that there wasn't much of him on the camp/workout circuit, which likely has more to do with him being off the larger radar. In my opinion the only reason Mack played DI football at all was because he was in FL. The same kid from somewhere in the midwest likely ends up at a JC.

So he is a good example of how SC coaches can vastly improve a player, but realistically an uncut diamond is still valuable, and that is what Mack was in high school. But your point is well taken that diet and a good SC program can have significant impact on player development. I think we have seen that at CU with the DBs. Not only are they well coached technically, but physically they are developing into NFL caliber athletes here.

They had before and after pictures. Fat kid may not be the right term. More immature and baby-fat. How his measurables, speed and numbers changed was the most remarkable after the total physical transformation. I'm sure you know plenty of middle-aged men who are 6'3", 220 and there are many different varieties.

 

[BuffsNYC]

Very true. My wife is Mexican and spent her entire life in a part of Los Angeles that is 96% Hispanic. We went to Boulder for homecoming in 2016 and she couldn't believe how white it was. Outside of seeing Bryce Bobo at IHOP the morning after the game, I don't think we saw one person of color the entire time we were there. As a white person, it's something I can forget or not notice to begin with. But I can see how it could be a difficult adjustment for a young person of color from L.A. or Dallas to come to Boulder.

With that said, I love CU and come play for the Buffs! We have mountains!

I don't think it has anything to do with a person's race, it's all about environment. There are plenty of white people who are comfortable in settings where they are the minority, because they've lived in that environment their whole lives. Similarly, there are plenty of African Americans or Hispanics who are comfortable in settings where surrounded by mostly white people, because that's the environment they're used to.

Several years ago I was on the 16th Street Mall shuttle in Denver and I happened to look up and I had a weird little freak out because everyone on the bus was white and I've never been on a NY subway where that was the case.

 

[SerenityBuff]

I don't think it has anything to do with a person's race, it's all about environment. There are plenty of white people who are comfortable in settings where they are the minority, because they've lived in that environment their whole lives. Similarly, there are plenty of African Americans or Hispanics who are comfortable in settings where surrounded by mostly white people, because that's the environment they're used to.

Several years ago I was on the 16th Street Mall shuttle in Denver and I happened to look up and I had a weird little freak out because everyone on the bus was white and I've never been on a NY subway where that was the case.

I think it does. A person of color, regardless of where they're from may experience things in a place like Boulder that forces uncomfortable feelings upon them. My wife, coming to all white Boulder, may be treated differently, because of her ethnicity, than she would be somewhere else. But I as a white person, would not experience that. I wouldn't be treated differently in a place like Boulder, but she would. In essence, she would be reminded of how out of place she feels regardless of how many white people she's been around in her life.

And the reality is, it's just different for white people. We never really feel that isolation or alienation on a larger scale because society is built for us. We can choose to ignore things and say something has nothing to do with a person's race. But many people of color don't have that option since they're constantly reminded that it is about race. Just my thoughts on the matter.

 

[BuffsNYC]

And the reality is, it's just different for white people. We never really feel that isolation or alienation on a larger scale because society is built for us. We can choose to ignore things and say something has nothing to do with a person's race. But many people of color don't have that option since they're constantly reminded that it is about race. Just my thoughts on the matter.

My point is that it's not different for a white person who lives in certain parts of Detroit or East New York--and those people exist.

 

[SerenityBuff]

My point is that it's not different for a white person who lives in certain parts of Detroit or East New York--and those people exist.

And my point is that I think it is different. Those white people (of whom I am one) who live in places where nearly 100% of the population are people of color, never really feel as unwelcome as people of color might in a place like Boulder.

 

[BuffsNYC]

And my point is that I think it is different. Those white people (of whom I am one) who live in places where nearly 100% of the population are people of color, never really feel as unwelcome as people of color might in a place like Boulder.

Interesting

 

[SuperiorBuff]

And my point is that I think it is different. Those white people (of whom I am one) who live in places where nearly 100% of the population are people of color, never really feel as unwelcome as people of color might in a place like Boulder.

Our niece married a black guy who served in the Marines and lives in San Diego, he is very uncomfortable in Boulder.

 

[MtnBuff]

It was mentioned earlier that less than 2% of all HS football players ever play a game in the NFL which is true but the original question in the threat was about 4* and 5* prospects. I would venture that virtually all of those guys expect themselves to a part of that less than 2%.

At that point for many picking a school is a business decision. Which school is going to prepare me best for the league? Where will I be seen? Where will I get the coaching and the S&C and the nutrition? Where will I be practicing against other guys who will be going to the league?

In some cases they may even ask themselves which school will make it easiest for me to deal with my academics in a way that doesn't get in the way of football.

When a school is playing and winning on national TV that helps. Having guys saying the school name on Sunday and Monday night football is big. The Nebraska game put us in a lot of kids minds. Everytime they mention that Chido or Spoon or Ted are from Colorado it gives us something money can't buy. Phil right now may be our best recruiter.

The other element as mentioned is the school culture and climate. Do recruits see the school as a place where they as a football player are going to fit in and enjoy their time. This is a tough one, especially with kids who are going to be a minority on campus.

A place like Boulder can seem like another planet to some kids. Not only because their skin color is different but even more because it is a foreign place socio-economically. A lot of people in Boulder, students and non-students, would be offended to have somebody call them out as racist but the fact is that not having much experience dealing with people of other races and backgrounds they do treat them differently. Many years back when I was coaching with a basketball team that was mostly black the worst places we played were the high schools in Ft. Collins. We never heard the "N" word or things like that but our players were simply treated like they were something strange.

It may be that one of the hardest task for our coaches recruiting is to convince recruits that they will be able to fit in and be comfortable in Boulder. Having 4* and 5* recruits from prior years who are already doing well makes a big difference in this. That is one disadvantage that CU faces because right now we don't have that base of top recruits to welcome potential new guys. A place like Alabama or USC a recruit comes into the football complex and is surrounded by the guys who's names he knows from prior classes.

 

[hokiehead]

I don't think it has anything to do with a person's race, it's all about environment. There are plenty of white people who are comfortable in settings where they are the minority, because they've lived in that environment their whole lives. Similarly, there are plenty of African Americans or Hispanics who are comfortable in settings where surrounded by mostly white people, because that's the environment they're used to.

Several years ago I was on the 16th Street Mall shuttle in Denver and I happened to look up and I had a weird little freak out because everyone on the bus was white and I've never been on a NY subway where that was the case.

I found myself taking a bus from Queens to Manhattan and was the only white person about 10 years ago. I definitely got that "out of place" feeling.

I recall thinking, "this is how a lot of black people feel a lot of the time"

 

[BerkeleyBuff]

Some of y'all are expecting 18 year old kids to make decisions like 35+ year old men who have been watching the game for decades and have infinitely more life experience.

 

[BerkeleyBuff]

It was mentioned earlier that less than 2% of all HS football players ever play a game in the NFL which is true but the original question in the threat was about 4* and 5* prospects. I would venture that virtually all of those guys expect themselves to a part of that less than 2%.

At that point for many picking a school is a business decision. Which school is going to prepare me best for the league? Where will I be seen? Where will I get the coaching and the S&C and the nutrition? Where will I be practicing against other guys who will be going to the league?

In some cases they may even ask themselves which school will make it easiest for me to deal with my academics in a way that doesn't get in the way of football.

When a school is playing and winning on national TV that helps. Having guys saying the school name on Sunday and Monday night football is big. The Nebraska game put us in a lot of kids minds. Everytime they mention that Chido or Spoon or Ted are from Colorado it gives us something money can't buy. Phil right now may be our best recruiter.

The other element as mentioned is the school culture and climate. Do recruits see the school as a place where they as a football player are going to fit in and enjoy their time. This is a tough one, especially with kids who are going to be a minority on campus.

A place like Boulder can seem like another planet to some kids. Not only because their skin color is different but even more because it is a foreign place socio-economically. A lot of people in Boulder, students and non-students, would be offended to have somebody call them out as racist but the fact is that not having much experience dealing with people of other races and backgrounds they do treat them differently. Many years back when I was coaching with a basketball team that was mostly black the worst places we played were the high schools in Ft. Collins. We never heard the "N" word or things like that but our players were simply treated like they were something strange.

It may be that one of the hardest task for our coaches recruiting is to convince recruits that they will be able to fit in and be comfortable in Boulder. Having 4* and 5* recruits from prior years who are already doing well makes a big difference in this. That is one disadvantage that CU faces because right now we don't have that base of top recruits to welcome potential new guys. A place like Alabama or USC a recruit comes into the football complex and is surrounded by the guys who's names he knows from prior classes.

This is spot on. Boulder and similar places are full of people who mean absolutely no harm but subconsciously react differently to people of a different race simply due to lack of experience.

 

[SuperiorBuff]

This is spot on. Boulder and similar places are full of people who mean absolutely no harm but subconsciously react differently to people of a different race simply due to lack of experience.

And police who pull over those suspicious looking folks.

 

[DBT]

We all need to face facts. There are only so many bank jobs we can offer in Boulder.

 

[manhattanbuff]

When my son, who grew up in the conservative south, showed up in Boulder as a freshman wearing a make america great again hat he wasn't exactly welcomed with open arms by the kind people of Boulder.

I hope your son isn’t on any recruit welcoming committees.

 

[DBT]

I think we need to, and we are, make inroads into the recruiting hotbeds in Cal and Texas and get kids here. Then those kids need to, one, be successful and, two, spread the word back home. Kind of “The DeSoto Model.” It will be interesting to see what kind of success we have recruiting DeSoto and surrounding schools as Laviska and K.D. continue to thrive here.

 

[SuperiorBuff]

I hope your son isn’t on any recruit welcoming committees.

WTF?

 

[BuffLuke80]

Growing up in Andrews, it was mostly white but it had a pretty big Hispanic population as well. African-American population wasn't very big. I haven't been down there in awhile, so I don't know the demographic now. With my friends and I, we simply didn't give two ****s about that. When they would come to the house, they didn't have to knock or anything, most of them did anyway. Hell, a lot of them would call my mom, mom. They still do .

 

[Ringer]

I'm not surprised at all that Stanford has the highest percentage of black students at 7.5%. I haven't done the analysis, but I'm willing to bet that their racial demographic generally mirrors that of California as a whole. I am surprised with the relatively low percentage of black students at USC.