Carson Lee

[MtnBuff]

What the fvck kind of take is this? To hell with this take. To hell with it.

Why,

Both parties are fortunate that it didn't result in more serious damage. Nobody is saying that what happened is okay.

We frequently see situations where a violent conflict like this one results in somebody being permanently injured or killed. It obviously went much too far, just thankful that it didn't end up worse.

And yes the consequences of this event are going to be difficult for both to recover from. The victim is going to be dealing with medical recovery, Lee is going to have some serious legal consequences to overcome.

 

[Buffnik]

The truth will come out. What he was accused of would be really bad if guilty. But also 2 sides to every story and innocent until proven guilty. Better to wait and hear the facts rather than speculating. Him not being at practice until it's settled is appropriate.

 

[CULifer]

Why,

Both parties are fortunate that it didn't result in more serious damage. Nobody is saying that what happened is okay.

We frequently see situations where a violent conflict like this one results in somebody being permanently injured or killed. It obviously went much too far, just thankful that it didn't end up worse.

And yes the consequences of this event are going to be difficult for both to recover from. The victim is going to be dealing with medical recovery, Lee is going to have some serious legal consequences to overcome.

You have some weird 'well, it could've been worse' thinking. You're out of balance based on the damage done. . . the dude got a fractured skull and internal brain bleeding. Bloody hell.

I don't think less of you, but hell, strike a different balance.

 

[MtnBuff]

You have some weird 'well, it could've been worse' thinking. You're out of balance based on the damage done. . . the dude got a fractured skull and internal brain bleeding. Bloody hell.

I don't think less of you, but hell, strike a different balance.

Would never wish this on anyone.

Simple point is though that sadly these things sometimes go further. Indications are that the victim isn't paralyzed, brain damaged, or dead, all things that have happened in incidents like this. Hopefully this means that he will be able to recover and go on to a normal life.

And yes Lee needs and deserves the consequences for inflicting this kind of damage but had he done more severe permanent damage then justifiably his consequences would have been more severe and longer lasting.

Yes I'm glad that nobody ended up dead or permanently damaged, that in no way says that what did happen is okay.

 

[GoonieBuff]

Would never wish this on anyone.

Simple point is though that sadly these things sometimes go further. Indications are that the victim isn't paralyzed, brain damaged, or dead, all things that have happened in incidents like this. Hopefully this means that he will be able to recover and go on to a normal life.

And yes Lee needs and deserves the consequences for inflicting this kind of damage but had he done more severe permanent damage then justifiably his consequences would have been more severe and longer lasting.

Yes I'm glad that nobody ended up dead or permanently damaged, that in no way says that what did happen is okay.

You keep mentioning nobody is permanently damaged. How do you know this? There could easily be permanent damage due to a fractured skull and bleeding in the brain. Not to mention potential permanent mental or emotional damage.

 

[buffs04]

Innocent until proven guilty, right? Except when we "now take you to [somewhere other than boulder]".

I doubt a neutral third party observer acting in good faith would seriously consider the possibility that someone who looks like Lee does in his mugshot (i.e., without an apparent scratch) is an innocent actor in a physical confrontation in which he (1) admittedly lied in his early versions of the story; (2) beat someone badly enough to fracture his skull and cause "internal brain bleeding".

This type of behavior doesn't belong on campus and it's probably part of the reason why some universities like CU "don't support the football program". Look at it from the perspective of someone in the campus community who doesn't like or care about football or other sports. Any perceived whitewashing of violence by athletes is just fuel to the fire for them.

As a side comment, this:

While police noted what appeared to be dried blood on Lee’s sleeve, they did not observe any injuries to the woman and so left the scene after breaking up the argument.

seems a little bit strange, no?

 

[MtnBuff]

You keep mentioning nobody is permanently damaged. How do you know this? There could easily be permanent damage due to a fractured skull and bleeding in the brain. Not to mention potential permanent mental or emotional damage.

As I stated "Indications are"

We don't know and certainly even if the damage isn't worse than reports indicate it is still severe and will take a long and painful recovery plus as you mention the emotional and potential mental damage.

No intent to minimize this, the damage is bad. Just thankful it wasn't worse and it could have been.

 

[H.E. Pennypacker]

Innocent until proven guilty, right? Except when we "now take you to [somewhere other than boulder]".

I doubt a neutral third party observer acting in good faith would seriously consider the possibility that someone who looks like Lee does in his mugshot (i.e., without an apparent scratch) is an innocent actor in a physical confrontation in which he (1) admittedly lied in his early versions of the story; (2) beat someone badly enough to fracture his skull and cause "internal brain bleeding".

This type of behavior doesn't belong on campus and it's probably part of the reason why some universities like CU "don't support the football program". Look at it from the perspective of someone in the campus community who doesn't like or care about football or other sports. Any perceived whitewashing of violence by athletes is just fuel to the fire for them.

I don't see anybody condoning this. Though, it seems you have reached the world's fastest verdict. Glad you think you are judge and jury

 

[onealcd]

How would the kid know if he got hit 30 times?

 

[buffs04]

I don't see anybody condoning this. Though, it seems you have reached the world's fastest verdict. Glad you think you are judge and jury

There are so many things wrong with this statement it's hard to know where to start. But I'd invite you to ask someone who isn't a CU football fan to read the first page of this thread and see if they detect any apologetics in the replies. Protip: they will.

 

[H.E. Pennypacker]

There are so many things wrong with this statement it's hard to know where to start. But I'd invite you to ask someone who isn't a CU football fan to read the first page of this thread and see if they detect any apologetics in the replies. Protip: they will.

Contrary to what you think, it's going to take more than he said/ he said to convict him.

 

[GoonieBuff]

As I stated "Indications are"

We don't know and certainly even if the damage isn't worse than reports indicate it is still severe and will take a long and painful recovery plus as you mention the emotional and potential mental damage.

No intent to minimize this, the damage is bad. Just thankful it wasn't worse and it could have been.

I wasn’t referring to that part. Even still, your “indications are” part was specifically referring to paralysis, brain damage, or death. There are plenty of other types of permanent damage that could result from this, and I’m referring to just physical damage, and that, including the mental or emotional damage could manifest itself at any point in that man’s life.

Ugly stuff.

 

[Daaah]

How would the kid know if he got hit 30 times?

 

[buffs04]

Contrary to what you think, it's going to take more than he said/ he said to convict him.

Your comment isn't really a reply to my post, but it's pretty bizarre to call this a "he said/he said" situation given the publicly available information. I'm not really sure what Lee's complaint would be?

Bet you wouldn't give Lee's counterpart a free pass if he were the one that admittedly lied to police about the circumstances surrounding these events. The same police who seemed to give Lee the benefit of the doubt during their first encounter with him.

EDIT: the irony of all of this is that you seem to be suggesting that I'm being hasty in declaring guilt. But I never declared guilt. On the contrary, there seem to be a fair number of voices in this thread searching for reasons to declare innocence.

 

[ShnaultzSaltNMaltAssault]

Ok. Now, I have no idea what happened, and I'm not looking to excuse Lee if the allegation is true, but I have a inclination both men are lying about AN aspect of the story. If I appear to be excusing Lee's actions bc he is a CU fb player, rest assured I am not. He admitted punching him, obviously that is what caused the injury but he deserves due process. Perhaps the victim felt compelled to give the police answers but nonetheless, it smells fishy.

The victim was admitted to the hospital with a fractured skull, internal brain bleeding, and claims Lee punched him 30 times... If trauma is severe enough where the skull fractures, the victim won't remember if the perpetrator punched him once or 1000 times. A fractured skull is almost guaranteed to render the victim unconscious to boot. He doesn't know how many times he was punched and I doubt the police interrogated him for an answer.

"As he was leaving Lee suddenly started yelling and then shoved him to the ground." Sorry but bs. If Lee was in a verbal altercation with the woman prior to the incident, I highly doubt anything happened suddenly. If it did, then it didn't occur when he was leaving. It would've happened when he confronted Lee... but he never said he confronted him.

If what the victim said is true, then Lee is a psycho who attacked him out of nowhere. My instinct tells me that isn't what happened. For the record, I picked up my best friends girlfriend at her house after her dad beat her. When I arrived, thoughts of kicking her dad's ass went out the window. Getting her to safety was the only thing on my mind. If this dude picked up a drunk female, talked to her boyfriend on the phone with whom she was currently in an argument (which she (undoubtedly) told him or at the very least he could ascertain from the phone call), and dropped her off at said boyfriends residence by proverbially walking her up to the door then turning around and leaving... then this dude is as stupid as he is kind. Here sweetie, I'll help you out, just let your boyfriend see me walk you up to the door so he can get mad before I leave! Nah. It doesn't excuse Carson for doing what he did, but I'm not buying it.

 

[Gary Indiana]

Ok. Now, I have no idea what happened, and I'm not looking to excuse Lee if the allegation is true, but I have a inclination both men are lying about AN aspect of the story. If I appear to be excusing Lee's actions bc he is a CU fb player, rest assured I am not. He admitted punching him, obviously that is what caused the injury but he deserves due process. Perhaps the victim felt compelled to give the police answers but nonetheless, it smells fishy.

The victim was admitted to the hospital with a fractured skull, internal brain bleeding, and claims Lee punched him 30 times... If trauma is severe enough where the skull fractures, the victim won't remember if the perpetrator punched him once or 1000 times. A fractured skull is almost guaranteed to render the victim unconscious to boot. He doesn't know how many times he was punched and I doubt the police interrogated him for an answer.

"As he was leaving Lee suddenly started yelling and then shoved him to the ground." Sorry but bs. If Lee was in a verbal altercation with the woman prior to the incident, I highly doubt anything happened suddenly. If it did, then it didn't occur when he was leaving. It would've happened when he confronted Lee... but he never said he confronted him.

If what the victim said is true, then Lee is a psycho who attacked him out of nowhere. My instinct tells me that isn't what happened. For the record, I picked up my best friends girlfriend at her house after her dad beat her. When I arrived, thoughts of kicking her dad's ass went out the window. Getting her to safety was the only thing on my mind. If this dude picked up a drunk female, talked to her boyfriend on the phone with whom she was currently in an argument (which she (undoubtedly) told him or at the very least he could ascertain from the phone call), and dropped her off at said boyfriends residence by proverbially walking her up to the door then turning around and leaving... then this dude is as stupid as he is kind. Here sweetie, I'll help you out, just let your boyfriend see me walk you up to the door so he can get mad before I leave! Nah. It doesn't excuse Carson for doing what he did, but I'm not buying it.

Making sure a drunk and vulnerable young woman makes it home safely is not stupid.

 

[CUAviator]

Have no data to back this but it seems like when it goes bad and teams are losing you get a lot more drama around the team.

May be because players lose interest and focus on winning. You start seeing more partying in season, more bad decisions and the problems that come with them.

Also may have to do with players taking the coaches and their rules less seriously. Almost as if an attitude sets in saying things don't matter.

We need one of our expendable players to bus surf to a game drinking beer.

 

[Denver_sc]

Ok. Now, I have no idea what happened, and I'm not looking to excuse Lee if the allegation is true, but I have a inclination both men are lying about AN aspect of the story. If I appear to be excusing Lee's actions bc he is a CU fb player, rest assured I am not. He admitted punching him, obviously that is what caused the injury but he deserves due process. Perhaps the victim felt compelled to give the police answers but nonetheless, it smells fishy.

The victim was admitted to the hospital with a fractured skull, internal brain bleeding, and claims Lee punched him 30 times... If trauma is severe enough where the skull fractures, the victim won't remember if the perpetrator punched him once or 1000 times. A fractured skull is almost guaranteed to render the victim unconscious to boot. He doesn't know how many times he was punched and I doubt the police interrogated him for an answer.

"As he was leaving Lee suddenly started yelling and then shoved him to the ground." Sorry but bs. If Lee was in a verbal altercation with the woman prior to the incident, I highly doubt anything happened suddenly. If it did, then it didn't occur when he was leaving. It would've happened when he confronted Lee... but he never said he confronted him.

If what the victim said is true, then Lee is a psycho who attacked him out of nowhere. My instinct tells me that isn't what happened. For the record, I picked up my best friends girlfriend at her house after her dad beat her. When I arrived, thoughts of kicking her dad's ass went out the window. Getting her to safety was the only thing on my mind. If this dude picked up a drunk female, talked to her boyfriend on the phone with whom she was currently in an argument (which she (undoubtedly) told him or at the very least he could ascertain from the phone call), and dropped her off at said boyfriends residence by proverbially walking her up to the door then turning around and leaving... then this dude is as stupid as he is kind. Here sweetie, I'll help you out, just let your boyfriend see me walk you up to the door so he can get mad before I leave! Nah. It doesn't excuse Carson for doing what he did, but I'm not buying it.

Hmm.... I think you're right.

I wonder what this guy was wearing?

He was probably asking for it.

 

[Fogo]

How dare anyone challenge the initial reports. Wells Is guilty! The woke Boulder crowd has spoken, and due process is not due here!

 

[Da Lama]

Ok. Now, I have no idea what happened, and I'm not looking to excuse Lee if the allegation is true, but I have a inclination both men are lying about AN aspect of the story. If I appear to be excusing Lee's actions bc he is a CU fb player, rest assured I am not. He admitted punching him, obviously that is what caused the injury but he deserves due process. Perhaps the victim felt compelled to give the police answers but nonetheless, it smells fishy.

The victim was admitted to the hospital with a fractured skull, internal brain bleeding, and claims Lee punched him 30 times... If trauma is severe enough where the skull fractures, the victim won't remember if the perpetrator punched him once or 1000 times. A fractured skull is almost guaranteed to render the victim unconscious to boot. He doesn't know how many times he was punched and I doubt the police interrogated him for an answer.

"As he was leaving Lee suddenly started yelling and then shoved him to the ground." Sorry but bs. If Lee was in a verbal altercation with the woman prior to the incident, I highly doubt anything happened suddenly. If it did, then it didn't occur when he was leaving. It would've happened when he confronted Lee... but he never said he confronted him.

If what the victim said is true, then Lee is a psycho who attacked him out of nowhere. My instinct tells me that isn't what happened. For the record, I picked up my best friends girlfriend at her house after her dad beat her. When I arrived, thoughts of kicking her dad's ass went out the window. Getting her to safety was the only thing on my mind. If this dude picked up a drunk female, talked to her boyfriend on the phone with whom she was currently in an argument (which she (undoubtedly) told him or at the very least he could ascertain from the phone call), and dropped her off at said boyfriends residence by proverbially walking her up to the door then turning around and leaving... then this dude is as stupid as he is kind. Here sweetie, I'll help you out, just let your boyfriend see me walk you up to the door so he can get mad before I leave! Nah. It doesn't excuse Carson for doing what he did, but I'm not buying it.

Guaranteed this is what went down:
- Lee has fight with girl he's seeing earlier in the evening
- Both go separate ways and drink throughout the night. Both end up getting drunk.
- Girl ends the night in a situation where she needs assistance to get home. Guy steps in to help. Maybe he has pure intentions, maybe he doesn't. Guy offers to help her get home.
- Lee ends up at girl's residence in the hopes of talking things out
- Car shows up - girl and random dude get out
- Lee wonders, "Who the fvck is this dude?" Confronts verbally
- Random dude has beer muscles gives it right back to him verbally
- It escalates to physicality
- Bigger, drunker guy goes HAM
- Bigger, drunker guy is fooked no matter how this shakes out

-Fin-

 

[chipwich]

How dare anyone challenge the initial reports. Wells Is guilty! The woke Boulder crowd has spoken, and due process is not due here!

Boo ****ing hoo

 

[Uncle Ken]

How dare anyone challenge the initial reports. Wells Is guilty! The woke Boulder crowd has spoken, and due process is not due here!

This is a weird submission on a number of levels.

 

[Da Lama]

I hate to see it and yes he deserves to be punished based on the facts of the case.

Keep in mind though that this is a college town with young people who frequently drink too much and respond in negative ways including with violence.

The difference in this case from the huge majority of these incidents is that it involved a guy who weighs close to 300 lbs and spends hours in a weight room.

Size though doesn't make a person more violent, more likely to repeat the actions, etc. it just means that he is more damaging when his emotions get out of control. The injured party in this case had the misfortune to get involved with a big guy instead of someone who is 5'7" 160lbs.

Fortunately I never got involved in any incidents that went as far as this one but I could have. The people on this board who have met me know that I am not a small person and when I was younger I had a measure of natural strength. Given the right (wrong) situation that could have been me.

Not trying in any way to say that he should get off without consequences but lets not condemn somebody for life for one incident and lets not expect someone to react differently than other college students do simply because he is larger.

I don't know. Some of my college football brethren and I mixed it up with some dudes in ABQ one time and they were all about 5-8 160, fully psycho and more than capable of inflicting major damage. I tapped out when I saw one of them drag a much bigger dude to the ground, mount him like a spider monkey and repeatedly slam his head into the curb with no signs of stopping.

 

[hokiehead]

Guaranteed this is what went down:
- Lee has fight with girl he's seeing earlier in the evening
- Both go separate ways and drink throughout the night. Both end up getting drunk.
- Girl ends the night in a situation where she needs assistance to get home. Guy steps in to help. Maybe he has pure intentions, maybe he doesn't. Guy offers to help her get home.
- Lee ends up at girl's residence in the hopes of talking things out
- Car shows up - girl and random dude get out
- Lee wonders, "Who the fvck is this dude?" Confronts verbally
- Random dude has beer muscles gives it right back to him verbally
- It escalates to physicality
- Bigger, drunker guy goes HAM
- Bigger, drunker guy is fooked no matter how this shakes out

-Fin-

very plausible and fits w/ what is known. "guaranteed" is a really strong word

 

[Duff Man]

I will certainly wait for more info to come out about the case, but if you are not at least somewhat troubled after reading that initial report, there is something wrong with you.

 

[MtnBuff]

I don't know. Some of my college football brethren and I mixed it up with some dudes in ABQ one time and they were all about 5-8 160, fully psycho and more than capable of inflicting major damage. I tapped out when I saw one of them drag a much bigger dude to the ground, mount him like a spider monkey and repeatedly slam his head into the curb with no signs of stopping.

Yup, see the dude was 5'8" not 5'7", makes all the difference.

Actually though this makes part of the point I was making. This kind of thing happens all the time when you are dealing with college aged guys. Take young men loaded with testosterone and alcohol and it doesn't take much to get things going. And yes smaller guys can and do often inflict serious damage.

This event with Lee though will draw extra attention because he is a football player (and they do represent the university so need to understand that they will be held to a higher degree of scrutiny) and because he is much larger than the average drunken college idiot.

Spider Monkey dude could have done major damage and even killed the guy he was beating up on, somebody the size and strength of a P5 offensive lineman is capable of doing that damage much more easily.

I am very glad for the victim and for Lee that as bad as it was it didn't from what is reported go into someone being crippled or killed.

 

[Da Lama]

very plausible and fits w/ what is known. "guaranteed" is a really strong word

Yeah well, I'm an all in kinda guy.

 

[leftybuff]

How would the kid know if he got hit 30 times?

 

[leftybuff]

He will poke his head into a meeting

A meeting between one of his OL and their GF?

 

[SINKRATZ]

I will certainly wait for more info to come out about the case, but if you are not at least somewhat troubled after reading that initial report, there is something wrong with you.

That’s something a woke Boulder liberal would say. What happened to due process?!?!