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2018 Offseason News: Pac-12 & CU Opponents

SINKRATZ said:
Graham and Rodriguez had each been in their job 6 years - how many Rose Bowls or conference titles did those guys win? ASU made a huge mistake firing Graham and hiring Herm IMO and if you think Arizona fired Rodriquez for only winning 7 games this year then you haven't been paying attention.

UCLA won the coaching carousel? If USC is more concerned with that than actually winning games then they're the dumbest program in the country - I don't think they are.
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Graham and Rodriguez also didn't coach at a place with the pressure and expectations of USC. I am not saying those schools made the right move just that firings like this happen all the time and it is less surprising at programs like USC.

If you don't think programs see other hirings and worry then you are being very ignorant. You don't think the Oregon and Stanford coaching staffs were concerned when Peterson was brought in at Washington because I guarantee you they were. Opposing coached get in the way of you winning games so they prepare for and pay attention to these things.

All of the factors point to him likely losing his job if he only wins 8 games next year and if you want to ignore those then go ahead.
 
onealcd said:
Graham and Rodriguez also didn't coach at a place with the pressure and expectations of USC. I am not saying those schools made the right move just that firings like this happen all the time and it is less surprising at programs like USC.

If you don't think programs see other hirings and worry then you are being very ignorant. You don't think the Oregon and Stanford coaching staffs were concerned when Peterson was brought in at Washington because I guarantee you they were. Opposing coached get in the way of you winning games so they prepare for and pay attention to these things.

All of the factors point to him likely losing his job if he only wins 8 games next year and if you want to ignore those then go ahead.
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Sure coaches get fired, but Helton has been HC less than 3 years and in that time he took the team to a conference championship game as an interim coach in year 1, won 10 games and the Rose Bowl in year 2, and won 11 games and a conference championship game in year 3.

I really don't see USC losing 5 games next year, but even if they did I think Helton is safe. If he has a couple down years or is getting crushed by UCLA then yes he may be in trouble, I'm just surprised to see people expecting him to fail already despite a pretty damn good record so far as HC even by USC standards. He may not be a splashy name and he was promoted from being their OC, but arguably the best coach in the conference (Shaw) took a similar route and that's worked out pretty well.
 
Helton has already hit the limit in terms of under-achievement, there's not a big cushion in LA, expectations are much higher.
They are not winning conference championships with the best talent in the league.

Darnold was the backbone of the last two years. I can definitely see it going either way, but if I had to pick, I'd see another season of some WTF losses and a slight slip due to QB youth.

I think they open 1-3 with losses at Stanford and at Texas. That takes them out of the conversation for anything they expect, and negativity sets in. They could run the schedule from there or lose @Utah, @AZ (depending on what happens with that staff) and then will have tough games with UCLA and Notre Dame. I think the telltale truth will be told if they start 1-3.
 
SINKRATZ said:
Sure coaches get fired, but Helton has been HC less than 3 years and in that time he took the team to a conference championship game as an interim coach in year 1, won 10 games and the Rose Bowl in year 2, and won 11 games and a conference championship game in year 3.

I really don't see USC losing 5 games next year, but even if they did I think Helton is safe. If he has a couple down years or is getting crushed by UCLA then yes he may be in trouble, I'm just surprised to see people expecting him to fail already despite a pretty damn good record so far as HC even by USC standards. He may not be a splashy name and he was promoted from being their OC, but arguably the best coach in the conference (Shaw) took a similar route and that's worked out pretty well.
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I am not expecting him to fail but I also think people realize how close he was to failing this year too. Took OT to beat an average at best Texas team at home, beat Utah by 1 at home in a game where they seemed to be outplayed the entire time, struggled to beat a bad UCLA team (with Rosen though), and then won by a field goal in the Pac-12 championship game. Then, next year they switch to 5 pac-12 road games and also have to go play in Austin so it wouldn't surprise me at all if they lost two more games than they did in 2017 considering they are losing a likely top 2 pick at QB.

Helton has only been the coach for 3 years but he was elevated from an interim spot which is different than those other coaches and the AD is not the one who hired him so it puts him in a weird situation. Even in his first year when they went to the Pac-12 championship they were a three loss division winner (4 total) that got crushed in the game so it's not like the fanbase was all that impressed. Last year was an impressive ending but also had some warts on the record, very similar to this year.
 
onealcd said:
I am not expecting him to fail but I also think people realize how close he was to failing this year too. Took OT to beat an average at best Texas team at home, beat Utah by 1 at home in a game where they seemed to be outplayed the entire time, struggled to beat a bad UCLA team (with Rosen though), and then won by a field goal in the Pac-12 championship game. Then, next year they switch to 5 pac-12 road games and also have to go play in Austin so it wouldn't surprise me at all if they lost two more games than they did in 2017 considering they are losing a likely top 2 pick at QB.

Helton has only been the coach for 3 years but he was elevated from an interim spot which is different than those other coaches and the AD is not the one who hired him so it puts him in a weird situation. Even in his first year when they went to the Pac-12 championship they were a three loss division winner (4 total) that got crushed in the game so it's not like the fanbase was all that impressed. Last year was an impressive ending but also had some warts on the record, very similar to this year.
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I guess I just think they're a better team than you do and don't see them losing every tough game on their schedule next year. We'll see.
 
I get the feeling that Helton is the guy before the guy. USC needed a pure football coach who was fundamentally strong and created a family atmosphere after its string of showmen.

But the guy at USC will have to be more like Pete and bring some show. This is LA. USC is also supposed to be kind of brash/obnoxious. I don’t think Helton ever gets it to there.
 
Buffnik said:
I get the feeling that Helton is the guy before the guy. USC needed a pure football coach who was fundamentally strong and created a family atmosphere after its string of showmen.

But the guy at USC will have to be more like Pete and bring some show. This is LA. USC is also supposed to be kind of brash/obnoxious. I don’t think Helton ever gets it to there.
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Bullseye. I think if Helton wins, he's their coach though. Winning cures everything. Winning the PAC12 may have actually saved his job after the Notre Dame thrashing and yet another missed run at anything nationally.
 
buffaholic said:
Championships is the plural form of the word. They now have 1, Stanford has 3.

My real point is they are not meeting expectations and it's not been a talent issue.
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The guy has been HC for 2 full seasons and has won 1 conference title. Did Stanford win 3 titles in 2 years? In a "what have you done for me lately" world of college football, Helton won a conference title this year. This hot seat talk seems premature.
 
SINKRATZ said:
The guy has been HC for 2 full seasons and has won 1 conference title. Did Stanford win 3 titles in 2 years? In a "what have you done for me lately" world of college football, Helton won a conference title this year. This hot seat talk seems premature.
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He didn't inherit a down in the dumps team, he inherited a team that was already built to win championships.
He also was the interim after the drunkard moved on in 2015.

He's had 2.5 years to show if he can take a "loaded team" to something relevant and he has not.
You can't ignore blowouts, they're bad looks.
I look at trajectory, and it's not clearly going upward. He's on the hot seat.

I think he deserves at least 2018, but I also understand why there's concerns. No other program with this kind of cash and status goes with an unproven head coach like Helton, at least not for long. I think ADs are too quick to fire now, and guys like Tedford are proof of that. But Helton isn't doing a rebuild and doesn't need 5 years. He should have had these last two teams in the Championship Series.
 
buffaholic said:
He didn't inherit a down in the dumps team, he inherited a team that was already built to win championships.
He also was the interim after the drunkard moved on in 2015.

He's had 2.5 years to show if he can take a "loaded team" to something relevant and he has not.
You can't ignore blowouts, they're bad looks.
I look at trajectory, and it's not clearly going upward. He's on the hot seat.

I think he deserves at least 2018, but I also understand why there's concerns. No other program with this kind of cash and status goes with an unproven head coach like Helton, at least not for long. I think ADs are too quick to fire now, and guys like Tedford are proof of that. But Helton isn't doing a rebuild and doesn't need 5 years. He should have had these last two teams in the Championship Series.
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No he did not inherit a team ready to win championships. From 2009 (Pete Carroll's last season) through 2014 USC won their division 0 times, won the conference 0 times, played in 0 NY6 bowl games, and lost 4 or more games 5 out of 6 seasons.

He took over a team in 2015 that was 3-2 (1-2 in conference) and had just parted ways with an alcoholic coach. That season could have cratered and all he did was finish 5-1 in conference and win their division for the first time since 2008. He's since added a Rose Bowl victory and conference championship.

I'm not saying he's some rock star destined for greatness, but you guys make him sounds like a bum who got lucky.
 
SINKRATZ said:
No he did not inherit a team ready to win championships. From 2009 (Pete Carroll's last season) through 2014 USC won their division 0 times, won the conference 0 times, played in 0 NY6 bowl games, and lost 4 or more games 5 out of 6 seasons.

He took over a team in 2015 that was 3-2 (1-2 in conference) and had just parted ways with an alcoholic coach. That season could have cratered and all he did was finish 5-1 in conference and win their division for the first time since 2008. He's since added a Rose Bowl victory and conference championship.

I'm not saying he's some rock star destined for greatness, but you guys make him sounds like a bum who got lucky.
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You are going off record. Every team that Helton has coached has been loaded and chock full of NFL guys. These are teams that shouldn't have **** shows like South Bend or the Alabama game. Should NOT ever play like that. Ever.

How many wins has Helton brought that any decent coach would not have (sort of the WAR index from baseball)? That is your answer. He's done nothing with what he inherited that says "wow, that dude can coach"! Fireable? Not yet. Hot seat? It's getting warm.
 
The five losses for USC is just my opinion. We’ll see how it plays out.

I think buffaholic nailed it that under my scenario, USC would open the season poorly with losses to Stanford and Texas. The negativity would snowball.

I would also point out that USC won Pac 12 title at a time when the opposition was largely down, as nearly every coach in the league has turned over within the last few years with the exception of Colorado, Washington State, and Utah, all three of which recruit at a level far below the Trojans.

USC fan base knows Helton is underperforming the talent, even if the record would be more than adequate for 90% of programs around the country. Trust me, I’d be thrilled if Colorado had his record.
 
buffaholic said:
You are going off record. Every team that Helton has coached has been loaded and chock full of NFL guys. These are teams that shouldn't have **** shows like South Bend or the Alabama game. Should NOT ever play like that. Ever.

How many wins has Helton brought that any decent coach would not have (sort of the WAR index from baseball)? That is your answer. He's done nothing with what he inherited that says "wow, that dude can coach"! Fireable? Not yet. Hot seat? It's getting warm.
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Sure holic and Stanford should NOT ever get beat by UW 44-6 (2016) or by Wazzu 42-16 (2016) or by Oregon 45-16 (2014). Ohio State should NOT ever get beat by Iowa 55-24 (2017) or Oklahoma 31-16 (2017) or by Clemson 31-0 (2016). Clemson should NOT ever get beat by Georgia Tech 28-6 (2014) or by Florida State 51-14 (2013) or by West Virginia 70-33 (2011). Oklahoma should NOT ever get beat by Baylor 41-12 (2013). I can go on and on. David Shaw, Urban Meyer, Dabo Swinney, Bob Stoops, those guys would never suffer big losses...EVER :confused:

You are what your record says you are.
 
buffaholic said:
He didn't inherit a down in the dumps team, he inherited a team that was already built to win championships.
He also was the interim after the drunkard moved on in 2015.

He's had 2.5 years to show if he can take a "loaded team" to something relevant and he has not.
You can't ignore blowouts, they're bad looks.
I look at trajectory, and it's not clearly going upward. He's on the hot seat.

I think he deserves at least 2018, but I also understand why there's concerns. No other program with this kind of cash and status goes with an unproven head coach like Helton, at least not for long. I think ADs are too quick to fire now, and guys like Tedford are proof of that. But Helton isn't doing a rebuild and doesn't need 5 years. He should have had these last two teams in the Championship Series.
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A top 3 finish is irrelevant?
 
Creebuzz said:
I would also point out that USC won Pac 12 title at a time when the opposition was largely down, as nearly every coach in the league has turned over within the last few years with the exception of Colorado, Washington State, and Utah, all three of which recruit at a level far below the Trojans.
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Dude, come on:
Shaw - 7 years at Stanford
Graham - 6 years at ASU
Rodriquez - 6 years at Arizona
Mora - 6 years at UCLA
Petersen - 4 years at Washington
 
SINKRATZ said:
Dude, come on:
Shaw - 7 years at Stanford
Graham - 6 years at ASU
Rodriquez - 6 years at Arizona
Mora - 6 years at UCLA
Petersen - 4 years at Washington
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I’m including Graham, Mora, and Rodriguez as turned over, meaning they were considered under performers the last couple of years by their schools and we’re fired.

Obviously, you disagree with my point of view and believe Helton’s secure. I don’t agree, but I certainly see your logic.
 
As with most rule changes, it’ll help the elites more than the rest of us. Still, not a terrible Idea.
 
Stanford's main issue has been lack of quality depth in the secondary. This hurts them quite a bit.
 
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