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Bench Montez (9-14 edition)

Medford M.

Well-Known Member
We have a different view of EPA I suspect. That’s for another day.

Can you provide the ratings to support your claim that he is a lot better this year? I see the same honestly.
His career Quarterback rating is 139. His rating coming into this game was 169.2.
 

Medford M.

Well-Known Member
We have a different view of EPA I suspect. That’s for another day.

Can you provide the ratings to support your claim that he is a lot better this year? I see the same honestly.
I don't think we have a different view of EPA. I think you're an analytics guy, and I'm not. Things like assigning more importance to a 5 yard play in the 4th versus the same play at another time...ridiculous. EPA is just silly. Like most advanced analytics.
 

Medford M.

Well-Known Member
Ahhhhh. Coming into the game.

114 today by stats you use.
I have no idea what his updated rating is.

For the record Hawg, you and me see eye to eye on most things, but I believe we've had the argument about analytics years ago. Really not worth rehashing.
 

hawg1

Club Member
Club Member
I don't think we have a different view of EPA. I think you're an analytics guy, and I'm not. Things like assigning more importance to a 5 yard play in the 4th versus the same play at another time...ridiculous. EPA is just silly. Like most advanced analytics.
All good. Hursts 242 tonight. 🤣
 

Bamalam CB#22

Well-Known Member
Our past coaches had the tendency to not give the backup a chance until garbage time. It was good to see akil Jones step in for van deist, I think akil should start next week. Being a 5th year sr, Montez has earned a very short leash the next couple games
 

NewEra 2014

Active Member
I was there and guys were open every play. He either could not find them or missed most of them. Horrible play on his part
I was at the game today. It is apparent that Montez no longer keeps his eyes downfield when he gets pressure up the middle. It probably comes from years of running for his life behind CUs O lines over the years. The guy is gun shy, and this year’s O line isn’t really providing him with the type of pocket he needs to be effective. It is what it is.
 

ZandiBuff

Club Member
Club Member
Home from the game. Not happy.

Montez lost this game. Period. Overthrows Missed open receivers. Chicken-**** refusal to run when he had open space.

Defense adjusted and only gave up 3 pts in the 2nd half. Montez continued to throw incomplete. Incomplete. Incomplete.

Only once the coaches take away his reads and play hurry up is he effective. If he thinks, he's wrong. It's really that simple. He can sling it with the best of them, but only when he doesn't have to read a defense or make it through progressions.

Any defense that makes him think, wins.
 

Medford M.

Well-Known Member
Home from the game. Not happy.

Montez lost this game. Period. Overthrows Missed open receivers. Chicken-**** refusal to run when he had open space.

Defense adjusted and only gave up 3 pts in the 2nd half. Montez continued to throw incomplete. Incomplete. Incomplete.

Only once the coaches take away his reads and play hurry up is he effective. If he thinks, he's wrong. It's really that simple. He can sling it with the best of them, but only when he doesn't have to read a defense or make it through progressions.

Any defense that makes him think, wins.
I actually read an interesting take from a pro scout about Montez today. Essentially, the scout said Montez actually makes a ton of pre snap reads to identify who the primary receiver will be on a given play because he's terrible at going through progressions, and because of the pre snap reads, the scout said Montez throws to who he identifies as the primary at something like an 80% clip.

Actually some interesting stuff from the scouts. They say a lot of the same things that are said on here. Elite tangibles. Horrible intangibles. The one thing a lot of you won't agree with is all three scouts praise his running ability/escapability.

 
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ZandiBuff

Club Member
Club Member
I actually read an interesting take from a pro scout about Montez today. Essentially, the scout said Montez actually makes a ton of pre snap reads to identify who the primary receiver will be on a given play because he's terrible at going through progressions, and because of the pre snap reads, the scout said Montez throws to who he identifies as the primary at something like an 80% clip.
So, Montez sucks ass at thinking, progressions and running the offense, so he pre-picks where he's throwing the ball pre-snap and goes with it.

sounds like an nfl prospect, 5th yr senior, 3rd year P5 starting QB to me.
 

Medford M.

Well-Known Member
So, Montez sucks ass at thinking, progressions and running the offense, so he pre-picks where he's throwing the ball pre-snap and goes with it.

sounds like an nfl prospect, 5th yr senior, 3rd year P5 starting QB to me.
The site has him listed as the 12th best draft eligible QB for the 2020 draft and among the top 200 prospects, so you tell me.
 

ZandiBuff

Club Member
Club Member
The site has him listed as the 12th best draft eligible QB for the 2020 draft and among the top 200 prospects, so you tell me.
I'm telling you that NFL GMs are always overwhelmed with "arm strength" - and seldom with "mental strength".

Jamarcus Russel was drafted #1 FFS. He had "arm strength" and could "make all the throws". Didn't have 5 brain cells to rub together, tho.

Sound familiar?
 

Medford M.

Well-Known Member
I'm telling you that NFL GMs are always overwhelmed with "arm strength" - and seldom with "mental strength".

Jamarcus Russel was drafted #1 FFS. He had "arm strength" and could "make all the throws". Didn't have 5 brain cells to rub together, tho.

Sound familiar?
I really hope you're not trying to compare the mental ability of a kid who played football at LSU to someone who got into CU, and is pretty smart, well spoken kid according to everyone. Now you're calling one of our players stupid. This isn't Josh Tupou punching a tiny frat boy or that JUCO who threw a cop through a wall. You're comment borders on being a dick head.
 

ZandiBuff

Club Member
Club Member
I really hope you're not trying to compare the mental ability of a kid who played football at LSU to someone who got into CU, and is pretty smart, well spoken kid according to everyone. Now you're calling one of our players stupid. This isn't Josh Tupou punching a tiny frat boy or that JUCO who threw a cop through a wall. You're comment borders on being a dick head.
Montez has a tendency of becoming timid at the first hint of pressure. Inconsistent pocket awareness and they will completely erode before seeking to escape.
Operated in a very basic side-to-side passing attack (2018) that involved lots of screens and perimeter throws under five yards. Relied heavily upon for making correct pre-snap reads in order to attack the perimeter, but when asked to decipher and progress through developing concepts, the previous elements proved to be a hindrance due to it being a bulk of the scheme.


Offense was kept painfully plain to account for poor processing. Cannot handle over half of the field and rarely, if ever, throws to a target other than his first read. 80% of throws are pre-snap reads within the first five yards of the line of scrimmage. Accordingly, lacks a sense of timing or spacing in his drops--lower body mechanics are generally awful.

Skittish as all nothing when there's impeding pressure. Can't stand tall and deliver unless the pocket is clean; regularly fails to get to his hot read briskly as the pocket deteriorates and takes unnecessary sacks. Has significant tunnel vision and will draw in all defenders to his intended target. Doesn't see sinking underneath defenders until far too late and puts the ball in risky spots. Lacks decision-making chops to be considered an NFL prospect at this time.


I'm not the only one isn't horribly impressed with the mental skills of one Steven Montez. Quotes are from your aforementioned pro scouts.
 

Medford M.

Well-Known Member
Montez has a tendency of becoming timid at the first hint of pressure. Inconsistent pocket awareness and they will completely erode before seeking to escape.
Operated in a very basic side-to-side passing attack (2018) that involved lots of screens and perimeter throws under five yards. Relied heavily upon for making correct pre-snap reads in order to attack the perimeter, but when asked to decipher and progress through developing concepts, the previous elements proved to be a hindrance due to it being a bulk of the scheme.


Offense was kept painfully plain to account for poor processing. Cannot handle over half of the field and rarely, if ever, throws to a target other than his first read. 80% of throws are pre-snap reads within the first five yards of the line of scrimmage. Accordingly, lacks a sense of timing or spacing in his drops--lower body mechanics are generally awful.

Skittish as all nothing when there's impeding pressure. Can't stand tall and deliver unless the pocket is clean; regularly fails to get to his hot read briskly as the pocket deteriorates and takes unnecessary sacks. Has significant tunnel vision and will draw in all defenders to his intended target. Doesn't see sinking underneath defenders until far too late and puts the ball in risky spots. Lacks decision-making chops to be considered an NFL prospect at this time.


I'm not the only one isn't horribly impressed with the mental skills of one Steven Montez. Quotes are from your aforementioned pro scouts.
You realize you're calling someone stupid...based on what happens on a football field. I know for a fact Tua is dumb as a brick, but he can play football really well. Re-examine your priorities. You're coming off as an asshole.
 

ZandiBuff

Club Member
Club Member
You realize you're calling someone stupid...based on what happens on a football field. I know for a fact Tua is dumb as a brick, but he can play football really well. Re-examine your priorities. You're coming off as an asshole.
I'm saying his football IQ is below sub-par. Your "experts" agree. His performance displays it.

I've never once said a single thing about his actual intelligence. You're so over-protecting of him that you're projecting on me.

And you just called a player dumb - perhaps your priorities are off?
 

Medford M.

Well-Known Member
I'm saying his football IQ is below sub-par. Your "experts" agree. His performance displays it.

I've never once said a single thing about his actual intelligence. You're so over-protecting of him that you're projecting on me.

And you just called a player dumb - perhaps your priorities are off?
No, I called a player dumb, whose own fans expect him to put up a WOAT level wunderlick at the combine. While you're calling someone dumb because you don't like his football ability.
 

ZandiBuff

Club Member
Club Member
No, I called a player dumb, whose own fans expect him to put up a WOAT level wunderlick at the combine. While you're calling someone dumb because you don't like his football ability.
Their fans think tua is dumb = ok, must be legit
Our fans (and your experts) think Montez can't make more than one read reliably = he's all good, they just don't like him.

At what point do you realize the hypocrisy in your argument?

He is a physical specimen.

And .. .

He's a physical specimen.
 
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Medford M.

Well-Known Member
Their fans think tua is dumb = ok, must be legit
Our fans (and your experts) think Montez can't make more than one read reliably = he's all good, they just don't like him.

At what point do you realize the hypocrisy in your argument?

He is a physical specimen.

And .. .

He's a physical specimen.
There is no hypocrisy. I could give a **** less about how he reads a defense in regards to his intelligence. Reading a defense has nothing to do with intelligence, dude. It's just something that some guys are better at than others. You're trying to question his actual intelligence. You're being obtuse and making up an argument that I'm not even having. You're literally jumping to conclusions in that post that I haven't even attempted to allude to. In fact, I've said as much as he sucks at going through progressions. He does, but you don't seem to realize that has nothing to do with his mental capacity.
 

Medford M.

Well-Known Member
I'm done arguing this. All I'm trying to point out is football ability has almost nothing to do with having any actual intelligence. There's a whole lot of dudes making a whole lot of money to play football, and play it well, who have the book learning skills of a 6 year old and can barely speak the English language (looking at you Marcel Dareus), so it offends me to say because someone can't process a game at the same speed as someone else, that their stupid. They just don't have the aptitude for football as the other person.
 

Buffnik

Real name isn't Nik
Club Member
Junta Member
Montez seems like a smart guy.

For whatever reason, it hasn't translated into reacting during a play to get to his best option.

With the starts and reps under his belt, there's probably noting a college defense can throw at him that he hasn't seen. But he just doesn't seem to see it or have a feel.
 

ZandiBuff

Club Member
Club Member
There is no hypocrisy. I could give a **** less about how he reads a defense in regards to his intelligence. Reading a defense has nothing to do with intelligence, dude. It's just something that some guys are better at than others. You're trying to question his actual intelligence. You're being obtuse and making up an argument that I'm not even having. You're literally jumping to conclusions in that post that I haven't even attempted to allude to. In fact, I've said as much as he sucks at going through progressions. He does, but you don't seem to realize that has nothing to do with his mental capacity.
Reading defenses and progressing through reads has nothing to do with mental capacity. Really.

Is it ESP?

Do some QBs just magically KNOW what the defenses are going to do, and some just DON'T?

Or do some QBs watch tape, make the connection between what they saw on tape, what the coaches taught them and what they see, and some can't make that connection? Why would that be, if not mental?
 

WarBuff

Club Member
Montez seems like a smart guy.

For whatever reason, it hasn't translated into reacting during a play to get to his best option.

With the starts and reps under his belt, there's probably noting a college defense can throw at him that he hasn't seen. But he just doesn't seem to see it or have a feel.
He’s infuriating. Did do a nice job with two big fails on snaps that were awful. The one over his head was inexcusable. Did a nice job of not losing most of the field with that one.
 

Medford M.

Well-Known Member
Reading defenses and progressing through reads has nothing to do with mental capacity. Really.

Is it ESP?

Do some QBs just magically KNOW what the defenses are going to do, and some just DON'T?

Or do some QBs watch tape, make the connection between what they saw on tape, what the coaches taught them and what they see, and some can't make that connection? Why would that be, if not mental?
You're still not getting it, man. I've made a very clear argument in here, and it's going completely over your head. I think you're being stubborn, and I don't know why. Being a smart football player and being smart are completely different things. That's what the point is. Also, if you read that scout critique, Montez does a ton of pre snap reads. He's actually pretty good at pre snap adjustments in fact. Stop ignoring the fact that going from receiver to receiver in real time with people bearing down on you is a skill, and it's something that has nothing to do with someone's intelligence level. Football smarts and actual meaningful intelligence is the debate being had here. I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT FOOTBALL SMARTS. I'm having this continued, stupid debate because I inferred that you were calling Montez dumb. Just in general, dumb.
 

Medford M.

Well-Known Member
Montez seems like a smart guy.

For whatever reason, it hasn't translated into reacting during a play to get to his best option.

With the starts and reps under his belt, there's probably noting a college defense can throw at him that he hasn't seen. But he just doesn't seem to see it or have a feel.
I'll tell you why. Because there's no correlation to be made. Processing athletic endeavors has no correlation with being intelligent in a general sense.
 

SkiRacingBuffalo

Club Member
Club Member
I'll tell you why. Because there's no correlation to be made. Processing athletic endeavors has no correlation with being intelligent in a general sense.
That’s just not true. Good QBs rely upon recognizing coverages, making adjustments and processing that information quickly to make a good decision with the ball. Those things are more likely to happen when you are smart. If you don’t agree with that, well then maybe you are “slow to process information.”

Nobody is calling Montez stupid, it seems like they are saying he is a classic “Looks great in gym shorts, not so much in live action all the time.”
 
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