I'd say the skepticism was warranted, you?
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Coaching staff is complete
- Thread starter Duff Man
- Start date
I'd say the skepticism was warranted, you?
He was an excellent position coach who had no business being hired as a coordinator just like we thought in our skeptical reaction to the hire?
Good position coach bad coordinator
As usual, Nik and Quarto say the same thing.
Picking coachs is a very inexact science; a guy who is very good at one thing, may suck when moved up.
The other thing is the coachs' fraternity shows weird pre-dispositions.
Rachel @ CoachScoop filled in some more background:
"...... Neinas has five years experience coaching special teams and significant experience recruiting in California (especially the Inland Empire schools), Colorado and Texas.
While at San Diego State, he recruited OL Nik Embernate (Yucaipa, Calif.) who was a two-time All-Mountain West pick, and Alec Johnson from Denver (Mullen) who was a two-time All-MWC second team OL, among others. (The team that Chuck Long's staff had recruited at SDSU just went 9-4 last season.)
I don't know Toby myself, but he has a very good reputation in the coaching community. All of the coaches I spoke to have a lot of respect for him.
I'm sure it may seem to be from out of left field, but they all seemed to think he will turn out to be a really good hire for you."
As for the Dad Neinas influence, she had this to say:
"The main conversation I'm referencing was with a coach that had worked with Toby at one of his previous stops. The coach that I talked to is still a college assistant; our conversation was off the record, and I definitely don't think he was speaking to me with any thought that his answer would get back to Chuck one way or the other. (He knew that I don't know Chuck and that I wasn't going to use what we were talking about in my article.) He said that Toby was very smart, hard working, organized and detail-oriented. As a recruiter, said that he does a nice job identifying talent and bonding with kids/families/high school coaches.
I asked him specifically if he thought Toby's dad was pulling strings to help his son, and he said, in fact that he understood it to be the opposite. (That Chuck goes out of his way to stay out of Toby's career.) His quote was, "If Chuck was helping him get jobs, do you think he'd have been coaching at Montana State last year?" He definitely had a point there. "
h/t CoachScoop and NetBuffs.com
Coach Mac things way too much of special teams to hire a guy as a favor to Bohn or the guys' Dad. I'm sure Neinas wanted to come here and work near his folks.
Coach Mac decided he was the guy. We'll know more in a few years...
Coach Mac decided he was the guy. We'll know more in a few years...
Please defend Brown as a DC, I really would be impressed if a semi-coherent argument could be made.
That'll probably just open up more bitching...
Gold
Well-Known Member
Brown received a salary cut and a title demotion as a result of his work as DC at CU. Don't be confused by the fact Alabama is signing his checks, this was a major step back for his career. When it comes to paying bills, retirement, no one wants to move backwards financially in their career. But as I said, your next job is a reflection of success or failure at your very last job.
Any answer would have caused this.
Touché
Not from me. Ringo saying there was a lot of interest in a CU job is not something he wants to put into print. Must be true, because he'd prefer to report the opposite.
yikes. solid non-answer
History tells me what us fans think tends to be wrong on more counts than not. We don't really know how good any of these guys are, and frankly, are these great BCS recruiters all that available to come here?
Some of these guys could be great recruiters and that's not known yet because NOBODY followed SJSU's recruiting. "Did they beat out NMSU for that guy? Fantastic!" Suddenly, Denver Johnson is winning an award as a great recruiter. The same Denver Johnson who couldn't get an instate O-Lineman if his life depended on it.
People bitched EXACTLY like this when Tad Boyle was hired. His track record was impeccable, but it wasn't enough.
Bohn advertised what the job would pay and how much was available for assistant's. He did that because the job was seen as GARBAGE. Hawkins openly had made excuses about not having the budget to get assistants and keep them (yes, the 1 year contracts still apply). Embree was hired on the cheap and he paid his assistants more, but still the reputation was - CU won't pay, and then there's those damn 1 year contracts. Bohn (and others) felt they needed to get the message out there that CU was ready to support football. When they did that, they were committed to paying some bucks. Good!
Did Coach Mac overpay his guys? Not sure yet. I'm sure his two coordinators were going to make some money. That strength coach was writing his ticket. Anyone who thinks those guys were going to re-up at SJSU for what they were making and their only option was a slight raise at CU are dreaming. I hope HCMM pays his guys what they are worth. No excuses. Now let's focus on getting the team better, as a perception of "turnaround" will far outweigh the work of some well known recruiter.
So either he's smart and he is signing up exactly what he wants or he's an IDOT taking care of his buddies and Mike Bohn's buddies. I sort of give him a little more benefit of the doubt than the latter.
It absolutely does. But endless bitching and judgement from dime a dozen message board people who don't know squat doesn't.
Whiz isn't so hot at using his own words.
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I know what the quotes you posted without comment said. What do you say?
Picking coaches is an inexact science to an extent, but when you look at a resume of a longtime assistant coach like Brown (55 years old and 30 years of experience at various levels), what does his resume tell you? It seems reasonable to conclude he has a lot of respect in the industry as a secondary coach. Not so coincidentally, that is the position he now holds at Alabama. There is little relevance of him being hired at Alabama and his last two years at CU. It was a questionable hire on many levels that proved to be a complete disaster. Put another way: would you rather have Kent Baer or Greg Brown as the DC? Nothing is ever guaranteed, but any halfway reasonable college football fan would say Baer in a second.
So then moving to Neinas and taking the comments from Football Scoop into account, there are several questions raised.
He has five years experience as a special teams coach, but simply having experience does not mean you are well qualified. Let's take a closer look at those five years and actually examine what happened on the field:
| Year | Net Punting | Punt Returns | Kickoff Returns | Punt Return Yardage Defense | Kickoff Return Yardage Defense |
| 2006 | 96 | 101 | 110 | 85 | 78 |
| 2007 | 17 | 35 | 85 | 53 | 78 |
| 2008 | 100 | 111 | 73 | 98 | 35 |
| 2009 | 45 | 115 | 108 | 66 | 98 |
| 2010 | 115 | 119 | 24 | 120 | 120 |
Easy to see why he was demoted after that 2010 season. Overall, he has five years experience and it is a pretty uneven record. Lots of coaches have good reputations, but that does not mean coaches are lining up at Neinas' front door to hire him to coach their special teams. So now we have to hope his previous stints coaching special teams at two non-BCS schools will not repeat itself against better competition in the PAC-12. Do you see where people might not be jumping for joy at that thought?
I hope the recruiting info is correct, but you seem to want it both ways. You spent the weeks leading up to signing day defending the new staff's recruiting because they had been at San Jose State and thus could not be expected to go head-to-head with fellow BCS schools and you harped on the point that recruiting is now a 2-3 year process for many players. So maybe you can explain to me how Neinas solves that dilemma, given his recent coaching stops?
It is more than reasonable to question the hire.
DuffSlapped!
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So I was sort of hoping that we may be ending up with a HCMM / Neinas story about special teams that mirrored the reported conversation with Lindgren when he came to San Jose State. I.e. "here's our special teams playbook and practice plan - learn it, execute it."
Then I looked up SJSU's special team's performance the past three years:
That looks pretty average, and fairly inconsistent. Granting that average would be an improvement for us, it would have been nicer to know that HCMM has a successful special teams plan, and just needed someone to execute it.
Then I looked up SJSU's special team's performance the past three years:
| Punting | Opponent Punt Return | Opponent Kick Return | Punt Returns | Kick Returns | |
| 2010 Rank | 72 | 90 | 5 | 59 | 76 |
| 2011 Rank | 29 | 73 | 60 | 66 | 61 |
| 2012 Rank | 58 | 77 | 44 | 113 | 10 |
That looks pretty average, and fairly inconsistent. Granting that average would be an improvement for us, it would have been nicer to know that HCMM has a successful special teams plan, and just needed someone to execute it.
No that's just pretty much the only thing that takes place in the football forum now a days.