ugh. dumb.
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Embree Presser Today
- Thread starter Darth Snow
- Start date
stl/dog
Member
Why you concerned about Jimmy? I would be more concerned if he was happy about what he sees with our orogram these days. Guessing you have not been watching or you would not be asking him that.
That art of innuendo is lost on you.
I was a big supporter of Tyler starting over Cody last year. My reasoning, and I stand by it, is that Cody had reached his ceiling and we knew that wasn't good enough. Tyler brought the ability to extend and make plays, putting a lot more pressure on a defense. Doesn't matter now, though. The milk has spilled. The water has gone over the dam and under the bridge. The condom has leaked. Neither had a ceiling that was high enough to elevate us.
bigbang2
blindslighted
Tyler is okay, but Dan Hawkins should have recruited some one better. I was going over the recruiting classes brought in by Dan Hawkins, apart from the 2008 class, i couldn't stop shaking my head. Even Kansas had better recruiting classes than us. Hawkins really screwed up the program. Embo first class is already better than the last 4 classes under Hawkins. Will Oliver, Kyle Washington, Greg Henderson, Mccolough, Goodson already seeing a lot of time as freshmen, and they were rated 2 star players or unranked coming out of HS, that shows me that Embo and his staff are good talent evaluators, they are not only looking at the 4 or 5 star players, they are looking at every body. I was never a fan of Tyler Hansen and Cody Hawkins, they are limited in there abilities. I look forward to Connor Wood, Nick Hirschman, and Dillon, hopefully they can develop into the elite QB we need.
Sorry ryno, I disagree. So many of D II's decisions on QB's are completely indefensible, unless you factor in the daddy's little boy angle. By 10/08 everyone with a pair of eyes knew CH was not a D I qb. TH is a better QB, he can run and escape pressure, throw the ball more than 15 yards downfield without it looking like a punt and doesn't have every fifth pass knocked down at the LOS. He isn't a superstar, and an argument could be made that he is in the lower tier of the P12 skilll wise, but he is better than CH. When you add in the fact D II's tenacious insistence to play his son, even in the face of his evident physical limitations, no QB with a brain in his head would come to CU (sorry TH) because they were gonna get jobbed by the Hawkins family quest. Given the way he constantly jerked TH around, and ran off any QB who might compete with Prince CH makes it is as plain as day.
Um, Dan was pretty bad at recruiting. To assume it would have been better without Cody blocking is foolish.
Highlander27
Well-Known Member
I'm surprised some people still think Hawkins cared to get people better than his own son. Why? He was blinded by his own nepotistic homerism of how good his kid was, and he couldn't see the affect it had on recruiting for the position, which is why we got who we got at the position and why it's the least talent we've had there in a long time. I don't fault Hansen. The kid never had a chance. HE was offered a scholarship to a higher end BCS program and he took it. He might have had a chance to develop above his talent grade if he was given the chance by the coaching staff but years of being jerked in and out of the lineup, ruined his confidence and racked his play.
If you would have told me before the season that Tyler's TD to INT ration would be 2-1 his senior year, I would have thought we would have 2-3 more wins. I think the coaches did as great a job as they could have this year making him into a better player than he was. He was never going to out-gun the Luck's & Barkley's of the world.
As stated before, this coaching staff doesn't get a complete pass from me but the talent they've had to put on the field is laughable, both talent wise and the fact we've had to start and play so many true freshmen.
If you would have told me before the season that Tyler's TD to INT ration would be 2-1 his senior year, I would have thought we would have 2-3 more wins. I think the coaches did as great a job as they could have this year making him into a better player than he was. He was never going to out-gun the Luck's & Barkley's of the world.
As stated before, this coaching staff doesn't get a complete pass from me but the talent they've had to put on the field is laughable, both talent wise and the fact we've had to start and play so many true freshmen.
stl/dog
Member
Lol, you are an All Buffs artist. The board is Ur canvas. Happy Thanksgiving!
Before continuing to hammer on Embree some of the posters in this thread should go back and see what they were posting in the last couple of years of Hawkins total destruction of our program.
I had higher hopes for this season but realistically we aren't far from where we should be. We had a couple of games we should have won (Washington State comes to mind and we should never lose to Hawaii) but we can also say that Arizona could have done a couple of things differently and taken that win off the board as well. CSU just flat out sucks so it stays either way.
Looking at the issues we have this year I am not overly upset with Embrees work. We are slow, small, and lack skill compared to the teams we have faced. Some games we look like a junior high team out there against other schools. Add to that the number of the upperclassmen who have simply settled for losing a couple of years ago. Bad attitudes are even harder to work with than a lack of talent. Add to this the rash of injuries, which shouldn't be surprising when you are outmatched physically but when your starting defensive backs are not only slow and undersized but also where playing offense the prior week or two there isn't a lot of coaching up you can do.
Embree has made some mistakes. This is also understandable since it is his first year as a head coach coming into a situation that would challenge almost any coach regardless of experience.
Over the course of the season I have seen some reasons for optimism. I have seen some of the players buying in and the effort seems to be getting better, even if it doesn't always show on the scoreboard. He has been loyal to his seniors (maybe to a fault,) but has also been willing to let the young guys experience trial by fire, although a lot of this has been forced by injury as well. I also see some significant progress on the recruiting front. We have to fill the class still and we have to actually get LOI's from the guys already committed but at least we are seeing recruits committing that other AQ schools want and we are being considered by some guys who are being recruited by schools that generally end up high in the conference standings.
To expect a turnaround in one year is completely unreasonable and I think that Embree has a chance to get it done here given time. At the same time after this year fans do have a right to expect to see real results leading towards success in time. These results have to start on LOI day this year. Nobody expects a top 15 class right out of the box but Embree does need to have a class that can be the core of this team in future years. He has to sign players who have the physical ability to compete in the PAC. An indication of this would be the other offers our guys recieved (when known, a guy like Norgard would have other offers but isn't even bothering to listen so nobody has bothered.) I'm not a big fan of the recruiting services but they are somewhat of an indication and we should be able get a class at least in the top 40 if not better.
Next year we need to see with an easier schedule and more of Embrees guys, both more wins and being more competitive in the losses. I don't expect a bowl but 4-5 wins should be a reasonable target in the absence of something really unusual happening (having 4 QBs get hurt i.e.)
After that we need to see a steady progression in the program. If the job isn't being done in year 3 then we do have to look seriously at making a change. While stability is important and coaches normally get an extension in year 3-4 Bohn has to make sure that we aren't tied into something like we had with Hawk that forced us to stick with him when it was clear that it wasn't going to work. Contract extensions can be structured in a way that reward success and leave options if the job isn't being done.
I had higher hopes for this season but realistically we aren't far from where we should be. We had a couple of games we should have won (Washington State comes to mind and we should never lose to Hawaii) but we can also say that Arizona could have done a couple of things differently and taken that win off the board as well. CSU just flat out sucks so it stays either way.
Looking at the issues we have this year I am not overly upset with Embrees work. We are slow, small, and lack skill compared to the teams we have faced. Some games we look like a junior high team out there against other schools. Add to that the number of the upperclassmen who have simply settled for losing a couple of years ago. Bad attitudes are even harder to work with than a lack of talent. Add to this the rash of injuries, which shouldn't be surprising when you are outmatched physically but when your starting defensive backs are not only slow and undersized but also where playing offense the prior week or two there isn't a lot of coaching up you can do.
Embree has made some mistakes. This is also understandable since it is his first year as a head coach coming into a situation that would challenge almost any coach regardless of experience.
Over the course of the season I have seen some reasons for optimism. I have seen some of the players buying in and the effort seems to be getting better, even if it doesn't always show on the scoreboard. He has been loyal to his seniors (maybe to a fault,) but has also been willing to let the young guys experience trial by fire, although a lot of this has been forced by injury as well. I also see some significant progress on the recruiting front. We have to fill the class still and we have to actually get LOI's from the guys already committed but at least we are seeing recruits committing that other AQ schools want and we are being considered by some guys who are being recruited by schools that generally end up high in the conference standings.
To expect a turnaround in one year is completely unreasonable and I think that Embree has a chance to get it done here given time. At the same time after this year fans do have a right to expect to see real results leading towards success in time. These results have to start on LOI day this year. Nobody expects a top 15 class right out of the box but Embree does need to have a class that can be the core of this team in future years. He has to sign players who have the physical ability to compete in the PAC. An indication of this would be the other offers our guys recieved (when known, a guy like Norgard would have other offers but isn't even bothering to listen so nobody has bothered.) I'm not a big fan of the recruiting services but they are somewhat of an indication and we should be able get a class at least in the top 40 if not better.
Next year we need to see with an easier schedule and more of Embrees guys, both more wins and being more competitive in the losses. I don't expect a bowl but 4-5 wins should be a reasonable target in the absence of something really unusual happening (having 4 QBs get hurt i.e.)
After that we need to see a steady progression in the program. If the job isn't being done in year 3 then we do have to look seriously at making a change. While stability is important and coaches normally get an extension in year 3-4 Bohn has to make sure that we aren't tied into something like we had with Hawk that forced us to stick with him when it was clear that it wasn't going to work. Contract extensions can be structured in a way that reward success and leave options if the job isn't being done.
This is entirely the problem. Tyler is one of the better players on the team holding over from the prior staff. He is at best a marginal PAC QB. He could have been a better QB with effective coaching and development but even given that how many of the teams on our schedule would Tyler have started for?
You are correct in looking at the young guys we played this season. Most of them should be enjoying their redshirt years but when the freshman is better than they guys in front of him (if there is actually someone in front of him) then you have no choice.
how dare you!!!issed:
If it helps, a beer or six will make you feel better.
you know.... it aint cool being no jive turkey so close to thanksgiving.
what do you think i have been doing all day? your reasonable and well thought out responses have no room here. drop the keyboard and grab a turkey leg, chicken!
I am in turkey coma right now. For family reasons and my wifes work schedule we did the big dinner yesterday. Right now my butt is stuck to the couch watching football and reading allbuffs.
That's the hope, at least. It's very reasonable to expect what you listed here, to say the least.
bigbang2
blindslighted
We play CSU, fresno State and a division 1AA team to start the season. If we go 3-0 to start the season, we have a good chance of making a bowl game. UCLA, Arizona State, Utah will be home games, Oregon State could be a home game next year too. WE also travel to play Arizona on the road, Nick Foles and Criner would have left the program. 5-7 or 6-6 record is possible.
Agree about the schedule being easier next year but we will still be way behind most of those PAC teams you list as wins in talent. I hope you are right but wouldn't count on it.
Actually Barnett was a good recruiter until the scandal broke. He had a few highly rated classes.
Pledge Allegiance to the Swag
Barnett didn't seem to get the really high profile guys but he had an eye for talent and got a lot of solid talent. He was better at developing talent.
He kind of lost interest when they made it obvious that they were going to get in his way in every way they could.
stl/dog
Member
GB did ok for a guy that "couldn't recruit", how many coaches are 4 time BCS Conf COY and one time NCAA COY?
77buff
Well-Known Member
Most of his classes were OK, but none in the top 25. His last few were around 40, nothing to get excited about. Neuheisel's were much higher. His best seasons were with Neuheisel's recruits. He could develop players - that was his talent. He did the same at Northwestern. Attachment is from Phil Steele's, but Rival's were about the same. GB didn't have bad classes, but his strength was finding 3 star guys and turning them into NFL players.
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77buff
Well-Known Member
What year was his highly rated class?
77buff
Well-Known Member
Phil Steele - if GB had a top 15 show me the doc.
77buff
Well-Known Member
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/recruiting/rankings/rank-255
Check it out for yourself - in 2003, CU had one 4 star recruit in rivals top 100, Brian Daniels.
Actually CU was rated by Rivals #19 in 2003
http://rivals.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/teamrank/2003/all/all
he had the #10 in 2002
http://rivals.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/teamrank/2002/all/all
dropped to #49 in 2004
http://rivals.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/teamrank/2004/all/all
came in at #43 in 2005
http://rivals.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/teamrank/2005/all/all
The 2002 and 2003 classes had some 4* guys but most of them didn't turn into major contributors. Barnetts classes were mostly built on solid 3* type talent.
http://rivals.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/teamrank/2003/all/all
he had the #10 in 2002
http://rivals.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/teamrank/2002/all/all
dropped to #49 in 2004
http://rivals.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/teamrank/2004/all/all
came in at #43 in 2005
http://rivals.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/teamrank/2005/all/all
The 2002 and 2003 classes had some 4* guys but most of them didn't turn into major contributors. Barnetts classes were mostly built on solid 3* type talent.