I can guarantee that both Schwartz and Horne would not have stayed if asked to stay.
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Games thread - MEN'S Bball scheduled to visit Oregon (Tues., 1/25/21, 8:00 PM MT), Washington (Thurs., 9:00 PM MT) and WSU (Sunday, 8:00 PM MT)
- Thread starter AztecBuff
- Start date
Gnashing teeth and rending your garments over Tad's inability to predict that his team would have the following issues this year really comes off as a bad faith argument worthy of ridicule, especially when the people waited for the end of a brutal 3 game road stretch to claim they were right:
1) Faulkner comes here, sees the guards we have, has dad guilt, then gets a better offer from Louisville late summer; (1 scholly)
2) Quincy Allen ends up having an injury forced redshirt; (1 scholly)
3) Ruffin has an injury forced redshirt; (1 scholly)
4) Parquet (1 of 2 seniors) gets bone spurs at the mid point of the season; (? maybe 1/2 scholly)
5) Lawson tears his MCL at the midpoint of the season. (1/2 scholly)
6) Covid issues (unpredictable and unstoppable). We honestly got lucky that most of the team went down at the same time. But losing TDS on this road trip was good for that UW loss.
For those keeping track, that is 3 of 13 scholarships lost to injury or strange happenstance for the season. Then you add in two more scholarships lost for 1/2 to significant portions of the season. In some ways parquet being only 1/2 gone is worse because it fouls up your practice and game planning. But right now we are down 4 schollies for every game going forward. Or 5 if Parquet can't go.
From this point forward, we are going through the rest of the season without the top three recruits in last year's class, and 2 of the top 3 recruits haven't played a single minute. Yea, sure would be nice to have 2 or 3 ( or even 1) super seniors right now... but that's a stupid thing to be spitting mad about and claiming you were right about. If Tad's recruits were playing and sucking, yea, then this argument would hold water. But they are hurt. So if you are patting yourself on the back about wanting those guys back, don't expect to be lauded.
Our guard lineup is now 1 sophmore and two true frosh.
Our wing lineup is all underclassmen.
We have one senior in the backcourt and two sophomores. And a walk on
Sometimes you just get ****ed.
1) Faulkner comes here, sees the guards we have, has dad guilt, then gets a better offer from Louisville late summer; (1 scholly)
2) Quincy Allen ends up having an injury forced redshirt; (1 scholly)
3) Ruffin has an injury forced redshirt; (1 scholly)
4) Parquet (1 of 2 seniors) gets bone spurs at the mid point of the season; (? maybe 1/2 scholly)
5) Lawson tears his MCL at the midpoint of the season. (1/2 scholly)
6) Covid issues (unpredictable and unstoppable). We honestly got lucky that most of the team went down at the same time. But losing TDS on this road trip was good for that UW loss.
For those keeping track, that is 3 of 13 scholarships lost to injury or strange happenstance for the season. Then you add in two more scholarships lost for 1/2 to significant portions of the season. In some ways parquet being only 1/2 gone is worse because it fouls up your practice and game planning. But right now we are down 4 schollies for every game going forward. Or 5 if Parquet can't go.
From this point forward, we are going through the rest of the season without the top three recruits in last year's class, and 2 of the top 3 recruits haven't played a single minute. Yea, sure would be nice to have 2 or 3 ( or even 1) super seniors right now... but that's a stupid thing to be spitting mad about and claiming you were right about. If Tad's recruits were playing and sucking, yea, then this argument would hold water. But they are hurt. So if you are patting yourself on the back about wanting those guys back, don't expect to be lauded.
Our guard lineup is now 1 sophmore and two true frosh.
Our wing lineup is all underclassmen.
We have one senior in the backcourt and two sophomores. And a walk on
Sometimes you just get ****ed.
Last night was so horrible the only positive I can find is that Tad's going to know without a doubt who on the team has leadership potential, who he trusts in the proverbial foxhole, and who needs to not be a Buff next year based on how they respond after that embarrassment.
Three game road trips leave you exposed to a lot of people outside your cohort. Thanks Pac12 conference!
damn. beat that but Tad. this is how Dana's gonna get his win in Boulder
With the benefit of hindsight, we know now that Quincy Allen plays zero minutes in 2021-2022. There was no way to know that in the spring when Schwartz and Horne left.
cu3x
Well-Known Member
I thought Horne might stay, because he was a grad student, presumably working on his Masters.
Nope. He was gone from the start.
Tad needs to have a closed-door meeting with the team and force a covid postponement
cu3x
Well-Known Member
Can you say why?
Numerous smart people came out and said that he came here for the year to showcase his game for the NBA. When that didn't work out, he went back to Tulsa where he was familiar and could get 2 years of schooling vs only the 1 left with CU.
From everything I've heard - and I could have missed something - it was completely amicable and friendly.
CDoug2667
New Member
That makes complete sense and is a very “no brainer” reason to transfer schools. I personally didn’t fully understand that particular scenario back last summer.
CDoug2667
New Member
Nique and Tristan are good enough to where they would have found a place in the rotation regardless.
Well for starters Nique and Tristan, and Luke, are all good enough to have found a spot in a rotation regardless of whether a couple Sr’s had stayed on board or not. Afterall, Tad was going for additional senior help when he:they brought in Mason Faulkner. Any time you can have some good upperclassmen around you run with it. Period.
As for 1-2 wins on the entire season, that’s not what I was talking about. I meant 1 to 2 to maybe 3 wins “so far” this season. You can now probably add tonights Oregon loss to that as well; with more upperclass leadership tonight, do the Buffs minimize their mistakes throughout and gut out a win at home? Probably. So now we may be talking about 3 to 4 wins and who knows how many might be left before the season is done.
As for Q Allen, I can’t wait to see him play in a Buffs uniform, and I really hope he stays and doesn’t transfer (always a possibility for these kids). But please, he is a great recruit but not (yet) one of their best all-time (again, yet). He was arguably the 2nd to 3rd best recruit in this class, which by the way includes a couple other Gatorade POY winners.
CDoug2667
New Member
Come off your high-horse dude. I was just putting a post out there. Lol. I was arguing that point last summer, I’ve stayed true to it since season broke, and I still stand by it.
Would this team be better with more upperclassmen? Almost certainly yes.
Would the program be better off for the next 4 years if Tad yanked scholarships from one of Hammond or Ruffin, and never got in on KJ Simpson so that he could keep Horne and Schwartz for one more year? Almost certainly no.
Explain the sequence of how you think this should have gone down. Does Tad go back on offers to Hammond or Ruffin and say, "sorry kid, I know you committed here long ago, and I told you there was a spot for you, but with the COVID eligibility rules I'd rather keep a guy on for one more year; good luck finding a new home."? You just stay out of going after guys like Mason Faulkner and KJ Simpson and work really hard to convince one of Horne or Schwartz to stay for one year of support instead of going somewhere new where they can get two years of support?
don't think it was a high horse. just a dose of reality
CDoug2667
New Member
What makes a dose of your reality the “be all”? Nothing. Our opinions differ and I’m totally ok with that.
CDoug2667
New Member
No, in this case you keep your commitments to Allen, Hammond, Lovering and Ruffin. I never mentioned pulling schollies from any of those kids. What I’m talking about is “in a perfect world” landing Horne and Schwartz for one more year before any of us even knew who KJ Simpson or Mason Faulkner really were. I do like KJ being aboard this season but this scenario would’ve played out before we knew of his decommitment from AZ.
Again, in my opionion, anytime you can have additional quality upperclassmen you go for it. Period.
In that scenario I draw up you would’ve had (4) Sr’s to start alongside Keeshawn balanced by (3) good developing So’s in Clifford, O’Brien, and da Silva, ready for quality minutes. Then you redshirt two of your Fr, and then see how the other two work out at factoring into the rotation.
Again, this is an opinion and how I would have liked things to play out.
I'm saying you are living in imaginary scenario that doesn't make sense. it's not a mere difference of opinion just like it's not a mere difference of opinion if you are choosing to not believe in gravity.
Buffsbball
Well-Known Member
One ball handler in college basketball, that wouldn’t have played out well. Basically like this year when Kee plays bad we would lose. KJ has won us two of our biggest conference games in Oregon and Stanford. Jeriah and DShawn couldn’t create their own shot (they needed a table setter like Kin) and Nique and Tristan would have played half the minutes they are playing so wouldn’t have the increase in production, game experience, end game experience that they are having and very easily could have left. People also forgot Jeriah was like 3 for his last 30 shot attempts and shot us out of a few games. Tristan has also hit a game winner this year but wouldn’t have been in at the end that game. We very easily could have been in the same spot if not worse record wise and have been set up terribly for 22/23.
You lost me when you stated LOB would get PT in your scenario. Dude would've been 10th in the rotation. But you do you, Boo.
'99
Well-Known Member
That route didn't work in 2016-17. Wes and XJ came back as 5th year seniors, but were never engaged and seemed to go through the motions. In my mind, that team is the most dissapointing in Tad's time at CU. Starting Pac-12 play 0-7 (I realize 5 out of 7 on the road and the 2 home games were USC/UCLA, but still) and ending with a first round NIT exit. That team had tons of experience, but the leadership dynamic never worked because XJ and Wes had been there forever, even though Derrick White should have been the leader.
As a reminder, the starting lineup included 4 5th year seniors (XJ, Wes, Fortune, White) and a 4th year junior (King). How does a veteran team with 2 future NBA draft picks and 3 other guys still playing overseas in the starting lineup end up that bad?
Also the seniors in this situation (a) didn't want to stay; and/or (b) would have been even older than Wes. XJ wasn't a redshirt senior IIRC.
Sometimes change is hard but still the right thing to do. Our change was made harder by injury - much harder - and now the growing pains the program has to go through are the kind that kick you out of the postseason. Not due to a failure to retain the super seniors, but due to completely random circumstance.
'99
Well-Known Member
XJ redshirted what would have been his senior season (15-16) due to an achilles tear, so he was 5th year in 16-17.
I could have seen Horne taking the same route (going through the motions) that XJ and Wes took. He wanted his shots, and Tulsa is giving him that opportunity.
Agree completely that change was the right thing to do in this situation. Nobody's going to be complaining in 2 years, when Nique is all Pac-12 1st team defense and LOB is in the running for 6th man of the year because of the minutes they got this year.
'99
Well-Known Member
True, Nique has grown so much this season. He may already receive some minor recognition this year. LOB understands his role so well, I can see him having many more games like last Saturday off the bench.
As for TDS, I can't wait to see him on the court with a shooter like Allen. His point forward mindset will make a big difference against the zone when there are some respected shooters around him.
if TDS can get a handle on his random really bad turnover issue, there's not going to be much to complain about with him.
Also, to drive home the injury issue, we are running out of bodies for practice due to injuries even among the walk ons, so that's nice.
Back to work for depleted CU Buffs men’s basketball
Following a two-day break that probably was a timely one for a team battered by personnel issues during the past few weeks, the Colorado men’s basketball team got back to work on Tuesday.
www.buffzone.com