NEW: Regents Meeting, Benson Decision, Investigation Report -- Monday, 6/12

[Buffnik]

Because it has nothing to do with Tumpkin's crime, but rather how people at CU responded when told of Tumpkin's crime. These are related yet separate issues. This is about process, not judgement.

Yep. And this is why OIEC is supposed to be brought in. Coaches aren't qualified and shouldn't be put in the position of assessing the situation to determine whether a complaint is credible, whether it should go to the police, whether the accused should be suspended, etc.

 

[Buffnik]

In the context of what the people at CU have gone through, it is basically irrelevant.

It's relevant to a lot of the opinions expressed by people.
It's relevant to whether Tumpkin works again.
It's relevant to whether Tumpkin sues CU.

 

[Buffnik]

That could happen I just don't see the admin releasing info about their handling of the accusations unless they knew he did it and was going to be found guilty.

Definitely weird that she told SI she told Mac about the choking and biting but then he said that was not part of the conversation though.

I don't know.

Biting would seem weird to me as "abuse", fwiw. That sounds like rough sex.

 

[letsgoavs192]

I hope everyone reading this takes a minute to email or tweet coach and RG and let them know the fans are behind them and appreciate them. We need to make sure the anger fades and they are here to stay

 

[pcbuff]

It's relevant to a lot of the opinions expressed by people.
It's relevant to whether Tumpkin works again.
It's relevant to whether Tumpkin sues CU.

I don't see Tumpkin having an action against us. We paid him through the end of his contract. Of course I'm also the lawyer who doesn't see an action from the girlfriend having merit. So what the heck do I know?

 

[Deleted member 807]

I hope everyone reading this takes a minute to email or tweet coach and RG and let them know the fans are behind them and appreciate them. We need to make sure the anger fades and they are here to stay

The message box on this website works, too.

 

[JWP303]

Haven't read any of the thread or reactions... I actually think the University is handling this as well as can be expected. Nothing about this was ideal - we wish the victim would have handled it differently and not put MacIntyre in a no-win situation... But I also wish MacIntyre maybe could have acted with a little more compassion instead of straight self-preservation as it appeared on the surface.

At least it was swiftly moved through the appropriate channels and there is a fully transparent outcome. This is effective crisis management - you're just trying to limit the downside as there is no upside. I think they've done that here...

Hopefully we can all move on now.

 

[Buffnik]

Haven't read any of the thread or reactions... I actually think the University is handling this as well as can be expected. Nothing about this was ideal - we wish the victim would have handled it differently and not put MacIntyre in a no-win situation... But I also wish MacIntyre maybe could have acted with a little more compassion instead of straight self-preservation as it appeared on the surface.

At least it was swiftly moved through the appropriate channels and there is a fully transparent outcome. This is effective crisis management - you're just trying to limit the downside as there is no upside. I think they've done that here...

Hopefully we can all move on now.

Although the lesson to any HC or AD in the country right now is to think about nothing but self preservation. First step if any situation arises is to call your personal attorney to document whatever the situation might be, review your contractual responsibilities, and get advice on how to proceed. The one thing you know is that even if the university is supposed to be on your team and university counsel is supposed to represent you, they are not and do not. You are on your own because that university will throw you under the bus if it's in its interest.

 

[Shldr2Shldr]

I am still confused.

MM reported to RG
RG reported to PD
PD decided to do nothing.

So because PD did nothing, MM is responsible for going over his head to OIEC? Or is the procedure for MM to go straight to OIEC whenever he hears about anything and just let them handle it, university hierarchy be damned?

 

[Big Jim]

The one thing you know is that even if the university is supposed to be on your team and university counsel is supposed to represent you, they are not and do not.

Just like virtually any employee at any company or non-profit. Most people do not understand this.

 

[Big Jim]

I am still confused.

MM reported to RG
RG reported to PD
PD decided to do nothing.

So because PD did nothing, MM is responsible for going over his head to OIEC? Or is the procedure for MM to go straight to OIEC whenever he hears about anything and just let them handle it, university hierarchy be damned?

None of the above. MacIntyre has a responsibility to report straight to OIEC and up the hierarchy lines. If is not either/or.

 

[Buffnik]

Just like virtually any employee at any company or non-profit. Most people do not understand this.

Exactly. And if I was in a position like a college football HC making that kind of money, I'd be an island. I'd have my own team: contract agent, PR consultant, image consultant, attorney. Everything would go through that team.

 

[DBT]

Hypothetically, I wonder if she'd known that the first thing Mac would do would be to call the police, she'd have bothered to call him? Maybe being able to call his wife and him was the first step she needed to garner the courage to press charges. Maybe if she knew calling him would bring in the police she would never have taken the first step. That's why there are anonymous help lines. With these new action policies in place, maybe a victim will be more hesitant to call or tell someone, thus not getting help.

 

[onealcd]

I am still confused.

MM reported to RG
RG reported to PD
PD decided to do nothing.

So because PD did nothing, MM is responsible for going over his head to OIEC? Or is the procedure for MM to go straight to OIEC whenever he hears about anything and just let them handle it, university hierarchy be damned?

Yes he was supposed to report it no matter what but we all know it was more complicated than that since she wasn't a CU employee, said specifically not to go to the authorities, and was out of state. I just find it funny that Mac was supposed to know he is a mandatory reporter when the Chancellor of the school does not even know that.

 

[JWP303]

Although the lesson to any HC or AD in the country right now is to think about nothing but self preservation. First step if any situation arises is to call your personal attorney to document whatever the situation might be, review your contractual responsibilities, and get advice on how to proceed. The one thing you know is that even if the university is supposed to be on your team and university counsel is supposed to represent you, they are not and do not. You are on your own because that university will throw you under the bus if it's in its interest.

All fair - but somewhere in there should be room for some compassion towards a victim who felt trapped. The one thing that I'm still left feeling a little uncomfortable about is that HCMM's response seemed so cold and clinical (from the woman's standpoint) and if we're to believe the SI story at face value this woman was just looking for someone - anyone - to throw her a lifeline.

I'd like to believe that a HC could still be careful while perhaps extending a bit more concern for the well being of the person who felt compelled to reach out for help.

 

[Shldr2Shldr]

All fair - but somewhere in there should be room for some compassion towards a victim who felt trapped. The one thing that I'm still left feeling a little uncomfortable about is that HCMM's response seemed so cold and clinical (from the woman's standpoint) and if we're to believe the SI story at face value this woman was just looking for someone - anyone - to throw her a lifeline.

I'd like to believe that a HC could still be careful while perhaps extending a bit more concern for the well being of the person who felt compelled to reach out for help.

He did express his concern for the victim. He made sure she was safe, which is the most important part of this. Once that was assured by the victim, he contacted legal. I am almost 100% certain that legal told him to sever all communications with her. That is the smartest course of action for Mike MacIntyre and for the university at large.

Would not be surprised if RG also directed him to cease communication with the victim. In that event, MM would be going against the advice of legal counsel and against the orders of a superior. You do not hold a high profile job making those kinds of decisions.

I agree that it is tragic that people have to protect themselves instead of being kind and caring to one another. That is the world we live in though. Especially when holding a high profile, high paying job like MacIntyre does.

 

[onealcd]

All fair - but somewhere in there should be room for some compassion towards a victim who felt trapped. The one thing that I'm still left feeling a little uncomfortable about is that HCMM's response seemed so cold and clinical (from the woman's standpoint) and if we're to believe the SI story at face value this woman was just looking for someone - anyone - to throw her a lifeline.

I'd like to believe that a HC could still be careful while perhaps extending a bit more concern for the well being of the person who felt compelled to reach out for help.

Unfortunately some people react differently to situations like this and maybe that is the reason for the $200,000 donation to domestic abuse awareness. I can tell you before this situation happened if a co-workers wife/girlfriend that I barely knew came to me with allegations like this my initial reaction would be you need to leave me out of the middle of this and go to the cops if you feel the need to. Obviously that is a cold response and my actions would probably be different now but personal situations at work are sometimes treated with reluctance.

 

[Buffnik]

He did express his concern for the victim. He made sure she was safe, which is the most important part of this. Once that was assured by the victim, he contacted legal. I am almost 100% certain that legal told him to sever all communications with her. That is the smartest course of action for Mike MacIntyre and for the university at large.

Would not be surprised if RG also directed him to cease communication with the victim. In that event, MM would be going against the advice of legal counsel and against the orders of a superior. You do not hold a high profile job making those kinds of decisions.

I agree that it is tragic that people have to protect themselves instead of being kind and caring to one another. That is the world we live in though. Especially when holding a high profile, high paying job like MacIntyre does.

Yep.

And in case people don't know, as soon as she hires an attorney it is very likely that her attorney is going to want her to keep people talking/ making statements -- recording those conversations if possible. If not possible to record, to send texts or emails to get responses in writing. Even non-responsive supports your side because it helps build sympathy (as it has done with you).

 

[hawg1]

He did express his concern for the victim. He made sure she was safe, which is the most important part of this. Once that was assured by the victim, he contacted legal. I am almost 100% certain that legal told him to sever all communications with her. That is the smartest course of action for Mike MacIntyre and for the university at large.

Would not be surprised if RG also directed him to cease communication with the victim. In that event, MM would be going against the advice of legal counsel and against the orders of a superior. You do not hold a high profile job making those kinds of decisions.

I agree that it is tragic that people have to protect themselves instead of being kind and caring to one another. That is the world we live in though. Especially when holding a high profile, high paying job like MacIntyre does.

I sure hope RG did not give him that advice.

He did contact Legal, his attorney. That led to bad advice and the beginning of the silo.

 

[JWP303]

Unfortunately some people react differently to situations like this and maybe that is the reason for the $200,000 donation to domestic abuse awareness. I can tell you before this situation happened if a co-workers wife/girlfriend that I barely knew came to me with allegations like this my initial reaction would be you need to leave me out of the middle of this and go to the cops if you feel the need to. Obviously that is a cold response and my actions would probably be different now but personal situations at work are sometimes treated with reluctance.

Don't disagree - but would also just point the very unique nature of this situation. Woman's husband is in high profile role, she doesn't want to ruin him, so she goes to someone who she thinks can influence him. But instead of getting compassion or help, she gets a call back from a lawyer. It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth even while fully acknowledging that it's a no-win situation for HCMM.

He did express his concern for the victim. He made sure she was safe, which is the most important part of this. Once that was assured by the victim, he contacted legal. I am almost 100% certain that legal told him to sever all communications with her. That is the smartest course of action for Mike MacIntyre and for the university at large.

Would not be surprised if RG also directed him to cease communication with the victim. In that event, MM would be going against the advice of legal counsel and against the orders of a superior. You do not hold a high profile job making those kinds of decisions.

I agree that it is tragic that people have to protect themselves instead of being kind and caring to one another. That is the world we live in though. Especially when holding a high profile, high paying job like MacIntyre does.

Perhaps you are right. He still sits here today as Coach of the Year and a new contract extension - so it's hard to fault him. But again - the idealist in me wants to believe there was a happy medium available where he's calculated but a little more caring.

 

[DBT]

Yep.

And in case people don't know, as soon as she hires an attorney it is very likely that her attorney is going to want her to keep people talking/ making statements -- recording those conversations if possible. If not possible to record, to send texts or emails to get responses in writing. Even non-responsive supports your side because it helps build sympathy (as it has done with you).

I don't think she hired an attorney. I think the attorney hired her. So to speak.

 

[Shldr2Shldr]

I sure hope RG did not give him that advice.

Why? It would be absolutely in the best interests of the Athletic Department as a whole. RG has to operate in his best interests, the University's best interests, and his department's best interests. Just as some will feel he has a responsibility to do right by the victim, he has responsibility to do right by those parties as well.

 

[Shldr2Shldr]

Don't disagree - but would also just point the very unique nature of this situation. Woman's husband is in high profile role, she doesn't want to ruin him, so she goes to someone who she thinks can influence him. But instead of getting compassion or help, she gets a call back from a lawyer. It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth even while fully acknowledging that it's a no-win situation for HCMM.



Perhaps you are right. He still sits here today as Coach of the Year and a new contract extension - so it's hard to fault him. But again - the idealist in me wants to believe there was a happy medium available where he's calculated but a little more caring.

It is an absolute no-win situation. MacIntyre has a responsibility to protect himself, his family, his athletes, and his staff. There are a lot more parties that could be affected if this truly exploded than just the coach, the abuser and the victim.

 

[JWP303]

Yep.

And in case people don't know, as soon as she hires an attorney it is very likely that her attorney is going to want her to keep people talking/ making statements -- recording those conversations if possible. If not possible to record, to send texts or emails to get responses in writing. Even non-responsive supports your side because it helps build sympathy (as it has done with you).

See, this is where we get too deep into our fandom IMO. If your ultimate goal is winning a legal case, then ok... But I say express the sympathy even if it strengthens the case against Tumpkin.

The real risk is when you start to try and protect your undeserving cronie at the expense of the victim.

 

[Deleted member 807]

I am still confused.

MM reported to RG
RG reported to PD
PD decided to do nothing.

So because PD did nothing, MM is responsible for going over his head to OIEC? Or is the procedure for MM to go straight to OIEC whenever he hears about anything and just let them handle it, university hierarchy be damned?

See something, say something.

MacIntyre has a reporting obligation for notification to both chain of command and OIEC.

This exchange shows that there was confusion on MacIntyre's behalf. (p. 58)

"MacIntyre said that the University tried to make him issue a statement written for him, but he refused to “go for it.” He explained, “I know what happened – they don’t know what happened, and it better be right.” MacIntyre said that he wanted his statement to be completely accurate. MacIntyre said he worked with George and Plati, then called Wayne and put her on speaker phone. He said Wayne was advising him while he was drafting his statement. Wayne confirmed that “we disagreed with what they were wanting to say.” MacIntyre again reiterated that he wanted his statement to be right. Wayne said that she said at the time, “I want to be clear, I am not giving you legal advice, I am giving Mike advice and want his statement to be accurate.” Wayne said that her role was to help MacIntyre, and that she “was focused on Mike and helping him.” She also said, “I was clear all along in being in sync with the school’s policies and he was talking to school people, not just me.”
George and Huff confirmed that MacIntyre took issue with the University’s proposed statement. George said that he, MacIntyre and Plati were in the conference room, and George got frustrated with MacIntyre. He said MacIntyre put Wayne on the phone, and that MacIntyre “wasn’t going to do anything other than say I [MacIntyre] did everything right, I followed what I am supposed to do and I’m not saying anything more.” George said that Wayne tried to address him, but that he said he did not need her counsel and would rely on University Counsel. George said that he left and went to Draper’s office. Huff confirmed that MacIntyre was frustrated and refused to use the University’s draft statement. He said that MacIntyre was adamant that “I did the right thing – I told my supervisor.”

Page 67.
MacIntyre asks us to find that there was an internal Athletic Department protocol that allowed him to discharge his reporting obligation to the Title IX Coordinator by elevating the report to the Athletic Director. We decline to do so. We are mindful of the meeting agendas presented by MacIntyre, which instructed coaches to report misconduct to the Athletic Director, and concur that there was a general custom and practice that MacIntyre relied upon in his response to the Complainant’s disclosure. We also note that MacIntyre’s contract required him to report to George “serious student athlete or football staff misconduct” that he knew or should have known about. MacIntyre complied with this instruction, which we read to augment, rather than supplant MacIntyre’s reporting obligations as a responsible employee. MacIntyre’s direct report to George does not relieve MacIntyre of his reporting obligations

 

[patebuff]

I sure hope RG did not give him that advice.

You don't think RG has a personal attorney who was probably giving him the same advice?

 

[Buffnik]

See, this is where we get too deep into our fandom IMO. If your ultimate goal is winning a legal case, then ok... But I say express the sympathy even if it strengthens the case against Tumpkin.

The real risk is when you start to try and protect your undeserving cronie at the expense of the victim.

What expense? If you look at what HCMM did, he followed exactly what she wanted. Made sure she was safe and part of that was keeping Tumpkin employed/busy. The only thing he cut off was turning into her Rabbi.

 

[Shldr2Shldr]

See something, say something.

MacIntyre has a reporting obligation for notification to both chain of command and OIEC.

This exchange shows that there was confusion on MacIntyre's behalf. (p. 58)

"MacIntyre said that the University tried to make him issue a statement written for him, but he refused to “go for it.” He explained, “I know what happened – they don’t know what happened, and it better be right.” MacIntyre said that he wanted his statement to be completely accurate. MacIntyre said he worked with George and Plati, then called Wayne and put her on speaker phone. He said Wayne was advising him while he was drafting his statement. Wayne confirmed that “we disagreed with what they were wanting to say.” MacIntyre again reiterated that he wanted his statement to be right. Wayne said that she said at the time, “I want to be clear, I am not giving you legal advice, I am giving Mike advice and want his statement to be accurate.” Wayne said that her role was to help MacIntyre, and that she “was focused on Mike and helping him.” She also said, “I was clear all along in being in sync with the school’s policies and he was talking to school people, not just me.”
George and Huff confirmed that MacIntyre took issue with the University’s proposed statement. George said that he, MacIntyre and Plati were in the conference room, and George got frustrated with MacIntyre. He said MacIntyre put Wayne on the phone, and that MacIntyre “wasn’t going to do anything other than say I [MacIntyre] did everything right, I followed what I am supposed to do and I’m not saying anything more.” George said that Wayne tried to address him, but that he said he did not need her counsel and would rely on University Counsel. George said that he left and went to Draper’s office. Huff confirmed that MacIntyre was frustrated and refused to use the University’s draft statement. He said that MacIntyre was adamant that “I did the right thing – I told my supervisor.”

Can't blame him for the confusion. The CHANCELLOR didn't even know there was a reporting responsibility.

 

[leftybuff]

Tumpkin's court hearing is June 22nd.

Anyone consider that he might not be guilty?

No, of course not, there is a PC principle here to be pursued, why in the world would we wait on the courts? Why in the world would the presumption of innocence apply? Why in the world would the shakedown wait for the facts to be established? CU absolutely has to kowtow and fall on its sword. After all, this happened off campus....

 

[SuperiorBuff]

I hope everyone reading this takes a minute to email or tweet coach and RG and let them know the fans are behind them and appreciate them. We need to make sure the anger fades and they are here to stay

Also take the time to tweet the suspected leak with how much we don't appreciate her derailment efforts.