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Offensive Line

Medford M. said:
Sure, but it'll also mean we have a glaring weak spot on the O-line.
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Eh, between Moretti, Ray, Pursell, Lynott, Roddick, Suavo, Jynes, and Austin Johnson, I think depth and talent on the interior is as good as it's been here in a LONG time. Whoever starts at those 3 positions will have earned it, and I wouldn't see it as a glaring weak spot. That said, I clearly don't expect Tonz to be anything more than an experienced depth piece.

Tackle depth is a different story, although not quite as bad when Fillip was thought to be leaving.
 
TSchekler said:
Eh, between Moretti, Ray, Pursell, Lynott, Roddick, Suavo, Jynes, and Austin Johnson, I think depth and talent on the interior is as good as it's been here in a LONG time. Whoever starts at those 3 positions will have earned it, and I wouldn't see it as a glaring weak spot. That said, I clearly don't expect Tonz to be anything more than an experienced depth piece.
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Oh agreed, the interior O-line depth is great going forward.
 
Buffnik said:
The silly thing about that is that you can never have an OL that keeps up with the speed of the DLs and LBs at any level of football. The idea that it's a good idea to narrow that gap a bit by giving up your OL being bigger and stronger than the DLs and LBs is about the dumbest thing ever I've ever heard. It's one thing to say that you're going to emphasize quickness and fitness with your OLs in the 290-300 range instead of 310+ maulers. That scheme can work. But you never take it to the point where your OLs are lighter than the DLs they are facing.
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It is especially silly when you consider the top OL in this conference are full of those of 310+ maulers... Utah, USC, UW.

It is even more silly when you consider that our OL, no matter what size, would be training at altitude. Will not necessarily help their speed, but it will help their endurance. That helps you win games at home AND on the road.

****ing stupid...
 
I could even see having some undersized OL if they were outstanding in other ways, if we could say "That guy is lighter but he is outstanding at ________." Not the case with us. Our guys fit the old joke about "They are small but they are slow." Not only were we undersized but we weren't particularly quick, didn't have compact strength, weren't great technique guys, etc.

I will go back to what I said the last few years that MM was coach. He thought he could out coach and out develop the competition so he allowed a culture where recruiting wasn't emphasized. They got lucky finding a QB that at the time nobody else knew about in Montez to replace the QB that the prior staff left them in Sefo. They got some transfers and JC guys, and they did have some HS kids develop. That hasn't worked for the OL.

We can hope that Suavo is able to come in and along with Hambright step in and give us an OL that is closer to P5 level physically.

Not going to bash Tonz who is a hard worker a solid member of the team but when it comes to OL you can develop them but you can't transform them. If a guy isn't physically gifted enough to become a P5 contributor on the OL no amount of work is going to magically transform him.
 
MtnBuff said:
I could even see having some undersized OL if they were outstanding in other ways, if we could say "That guy is lighter but he is outstanding at ________." Not the case with us. Our guys fit the old joke about "They are small but they are slow." Not only were we undersized but we weren't particularly quick, didn't have compact strength, weren't great technique guys, etc.

I will go back to what I said the last few years that MM was coach. He thought he could out coach and out develop the competition so he allowed a culture where recruiting wasn't emphasized. They got lucky finding a QB that at the time nobody else knew about in Montez to replace the QB that the prior staff left them in Sefo. They got some transfers and JC guys, and they did have some HS kids develop. That hasn't worked for the OL.

We can hope that Suavo is able to come in and along with Hambright step in and give us an OL that is closer to P5 level physically.

Not going to bash Tonz who is a hard worker a solid member of the team but when it comes to OL you can develop them but you can't transform them. If a guy isn't physically gifted enough to become a P5 contributor on the OL no amount of work is going to magically transform him.
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I can't even see it from that perspective. It's a complete non-starter of a conversation for me if anyone is going to try to justify someone who weighs in the 260s starting on our OL.
 
Buffnik said:
I can't even see it from that perspective. It's a complete non-starter of a conversation for me if anyone is going to try to justify someone who weighs in the 260s starting on our OL.
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Maybe, if it was like 1985 and ****. With the size of kids now, it's a complete non-starter. I'm sure he's a good dude, play tight end of something.
 
Buffnik said:
I can't even see it from that perspective. It's a complete non-starter of a conversation for me if anyone is going to try to justify someone who weighs in the 260s starting on our OL.
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It would be hard to justify a guy in the 260's but I could see it on an individual basis. There are a number of guys in the P5 listed in the 280's that play very well and are likely overstated by 10 or more pounds.

My point is that not only were our guys grossly undersized but they weren't outstanding in ways to compensate.

Mark Schlereth was a pro bowler in the NFL who was listed at 285. He has talked about how he would have a big breakfast, drink a bunch of water, and hold his bathroom functions on weigh in days and that he normally played in the 270's. The balancing factor was that Al Wilson called him "the strongest man is ever faced" in the NFL.

Our problem has been under MM that not only were our OL undersized but they lacked strength, lacked outstanding quickness, were not outstanding in technique. Basically what the MM staff did was recruit a bunch of guys who should have been MWC or lower prospects.

A telling indicator. The NFL is short on quality OL, short enough that even career backups for some top programs get signed for shots at training camp based on physical numbers. How many OL from CU have even gotten a shot at the NFL. A few, but not many. The raw talent has not been there.
 
MtnBuff said:
It would be hard to justify a guy in the 260's but I could see it on an individual basis. There are a number of guys in the P5 listed in the 280's that play very well and are likely overstated by 10 or more pounds.

My point is that not only were our guys grossly undersized but they weren't outstanding in ways to compensate.

Mark Schlereth was a pro bowler in the NFL who was listed at 285. He has talked about how he would have a big breakfast, drink a bunch of water, and hold his bathroom functions on weigh in days and that he normally played in the 270's. The balancing factor was that Al Wilson called him "the strongest man is ever faced" in the NFL.

Our problem has been under MM that not only were our OL undersized but they lacked strength, lacked outstanding quickness, were not outstanding in technique. Basically what the MM staff did was recruit a bunch of guys who should have been MWC or lower prospects.

A telling indicator. The NFL is short on quality OL, short enough that even career backups for some top programs get signed for shots at training camp based on physical numbers. How many OL from CU have even gotten a shot at the NFL. A few, but not many. The raw talent has not been there.
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You can't use some exceptional cases of guys being great as OLs 20 years ago while weighing in the 280s to justify any sort of idea of playing an OL who weighs in the 260s today. It's a ridiculous weight for a P5 OL.
 
MtnBuff said:
It would be hard to justify a guy in the 260's but I could see it on an individual basis. There are a number of guys in the P5 listed in the 280's that play very well and are likely overstated by 10 or more pounds.

My point is that not only were our guys grossly undersized but they weren't outstanding in ways to compensate.

Mark Schlereth was a pro bowler in the NFL who was listed at 285. He has talked about how he would have a big breakfast, drink a bunch of water, and hold his bathroom functions on weigh in days and that he normally played in the 270's. The balancing factor was that Al Wilson called him "the strongest man is ever faced" in the NFL.

Our problem has been under MM that not only were our OL undersized but they lacked strength, lacked outstanding quickness, were not outstanding in technique. Basically what the MM staff did was recruit a bunch of guys who should have been MWC or lower prospects.

A telling indicator. The NFL is short on quality OL, short enough that even career backups for some top programs get signed for shots at training camp based on physical numbers. How many OL from CU have even gotten a shot at the NFL. A few, but not many. The raw talent has not been there.
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Who are these "number of guys in the P5 listed in the 280s that play very well and are likely overstated by 10 or more pounds"? Dude. No. Good P5 teams don't have OL who play that light.
 
Buffnik said:
You can't use some exceptional cases of guys being great as OLs 20 years ago while weighing in the 280s to justify any sort of idea of playing an OL who weighs in the 260s today. It's a ridiculous weight for a P5 OL.
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I don't disagree with you. Just trying to point out the falicy in the justification given. 260 is too light. I wouldn't have a problem with playing guys who are lighter than the norm (say in the 280's now) if they were outstanding in ways that compensated. We have not been.

We can talk DBU and Money Gang and QBs and RBs and the rest of it. The reason we have been dead last in our division every year but one for what seems like forever is because of our failure to recruit the guys who normally wear numbers between 50 and 79. I don't care how great the scheme is, how good your coaching is, how spectacular your skill guys are, games are won and lost on the LOS.

We missed Viska last year but his absence wasn't why we lost the last 7 in a row, our OL was the biggest culprit.
 
Wait, though. Maybe, a spot guy, here and there, could get some snaps. If the dudes you're blocking outweigh you by 40 pounds, or more, you won't last.
 
rather ironic that the 2012 CU squad had bak, munyer, lewis and nembot on the OL - bak-munyer and lewis still in the league. nembo and handler in camps thru the summer and no doubt that mad jack harris would have been if it werent for injuries...all of this in spite of no qb, no rb, an aged OL coach and a S and C nightmare
 
slystone said:
rather ironic that the 2012 CU squad had bak, munyer, lewis and nembot on the OL - bak-munyer and lewis still in the league. nembo and handler in camps thru the summer and no doubt that mad jack harris would have been if it werent for injuries...all of this in spite of no qb, no rb, an aged OL coach and a S and C nightmare
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What was up with S&C that year?
 
my mistake...2012 was coach blacken....the big guys loved him and he got results...went downhill with the crossfit dude that moved in from san jose
 
No kidding CU kicked ass in the trenches in the past...just ask the 2001 Cornhuskers.

I miss seeing that.
 
Medford M. said:
Point me to that article that talks about that, so I too can be super pissed.
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Now everyone can be super pissed!

http://www.buffzone.com/football-cu...iam-sherman-adjusting-bigger-frame?source=rss
It didn't take a coaching change for Sherman to realize he had to improve, however.

As a redshirt freshman last season, Sherman came off the bench early in the year. He then started the last nine games at left tackle, playing every offensive snap. During a Week 2 win at Nebraska, Sherman got pushed around too much, he said.

"Nebraska, you kind of saw it a little bit and then USC (in Week 6)," he said. "I talked to Drew and said, 'If we're going to win big games like USC, Washington and Utah, I'm going to need to get better,' and we have been working on that."

After playing at around 275-280 pounds last season, Sherman has spent the early part of spring practices adjusting to his new body
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Medford M. said:
Point me to that article that talks about that, so I too can be super pissed.
Click to expand...

Highlander said:
Now everyone can be super pissed!

http://www.buffzone.com/football-cu...iam-sherman-adjusting-bigger-frame?source=rss
Click to expand...

Highlander referenced the latest one on Sherman:
After playing at around 275-280 pounds last season, Sherman has spent the early part of spring practices adjusting to his new body
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Roster almost always listed 290 for Sherman last season.

Then there is also:
https://247sports.com/college/color...tted-to-future-with-the-Buffaloes--130471682/
that discussed Frank Fillip:
Fillip is also trying to add good weight to his 6-foot-7 frame.
"I have put on about 10 pounds since last season and I am about 270-pounds now. I played really light last year," he said. "I'd like to be 290 (by the start of camp). Ideally, I'd like to be 300 but I don't know if that would happen in a healthy way by that point."
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The basic math there is that 270 minus 10 = 260 pounds last season for Fillip. Roster last year usually referenced 275-280 for him.
 
Duff Man said:
We'll see how Brumbaugh does going forward.
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Yeah. The jobs he has had are at the level I want to see in our assistant coach hires. But at the same time it doesn't look as though there are quantifiable performance metrics we can hang our hats on to say that he made a big positive impact in any of those jobs.

I don't think anyone can make a great case right now to justify a strong opinion of that hire. We'll find out quickly, though, based on whether those lightly recruited guys he brought in can play, whether Mustafa builds on last season, whether Sami & Lang develop like we think they're capable, and what recruits he's able to land this cycle. At this point, my attitude is that he's qualified and comes from the same DL coaching lineage as Drake so it was a sound, logical decision with the hiring process.
 
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