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Official Phillip Lindsay Really is the first undrafted rookie in the ProBowl Thread

Gary Indiana said:
Yes, I am saying from a strictly physical point of view, Barkley is someone who can be a workhorse every down back. Phil is phenomenal but I'm not sure he can be that guy for you. He has limitations there.
Click to expand...
Welcome to the bad take zone.
Phil:

YearSchoolConfClassPosGAttYdsAvgTDRecYdsAvgTDPlaysYdsAvgTD
2014ColoradoPac-12FRRB12793914.90141188.40935095.50
2015ColoradoPac-12SORB131416584.76272168.011688745.27
*2016ColoradoPac-12JRRB1424412525.116534939.3129717455.917
2017ColoradoPac-12SRRB1230114744.9142325711.2132417315.315
CareerColorado 76537754.93611710849.3388248595.539
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TFOOT] [/TFOOT]


Barkley:
YearSchoolConfClassPosGAttYdsAvgTDRecYdsAvgTDPlaysYdsAvgTD
*2015Penn StateBig TenFRRB1118210765.97201618.1120212376.18
*2016Penn StateBig TenSORB1427214965.5182840214.4430018986.322
*2017Penn StateBig TenJRRB1321712715.9185463211.7327119037.021
CareerPenn State 67138435.743102119511.7877350386.551
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TFOOT] [/TFOOT]
 
Gary Indiana said:
Yes, I am saying from a strictly physical point of view, Barkley is someone who can be a workhorse every down back. Phil is phenomenal but I'm not sure he can be that guy for you. He has limitations there.
Click to expand...
Based on his size and conventional wisdom, that seems to be true. But his usage rate in college was the highest in the country and he never fumbled or wore down. I think he might just be one of those unicorns who defies everything we think we know. (Kind of like Drew Brees being an all-time QB despite being short, having mediocre arm strength and not being able to do anything with his legs to offset those limitations.)
 
TSchekler said:
Barkley: 954 yards rushing (4.9 ypc), 8 TDs
Lindsay: 937 yards rushing (6.1 ypc), 8 TDs

The problem lies in the receiving game, where Barkley has 74 receptions for 602 yards and 4 TDs, while Phil only has 25 rec for 189 yards and 1 TD. If the Broncos would use PL in the same capacity the Giants use Barkley he'd be a lock for ROY and probably right there with Gurley for MVP.

Click to expand...

Phil's been averaging ~16 carries for 100 yards and 1.2 TDs/game since becoming the starter. Project that out over the last 4 games and he'd end up with 1337 yards and 13 TDs, whereas Barkley projects out to 1272 yards and 11 TDs.

Phil's usage in the passing game has gone down slightly since becoming the starter- 2.4 targets per game as the starter vs. 2.9 targets per game previously.

Now- the rush defenses that NY are facing over the last 4 weeks are tougher- all rank in the top half of the league in YPC against, and the Cowboys and the Colts are in the top 10, whereas Oakland and Cleveland are two of the worst.

How much better would PL have to be in the rushing game to negate Barkley's advantage in the passing game?

If PL gets to 1400 yards rushing and 15 TDs and maintains his lead on YPC, would that be viewed as better than barkley if he gets to ~1,900 Yards from Scrimmage and 14 total TDs?
 
Gary Indiana said:
Yes, I am saying from a strictly physical point of view, Barkley is someone who can be a workhorse every down back. Phil is phenomenal but I'm not sure he can be that guy for you. He has limitations there.
Click to expand...
Barkley is only averaging like 3.5 more carries/game than Phil, though. The only difference is the usage in the passing game, which doesn't really support the workhorse argument.
 
Denver_sc said:
Phil's been averaging ~16 carries for 100 yards and 1.2 TDs/game since becoming the starter. Project that out over the last 4 games and he'd end up with 1337 yards and 13 TDs, whereas Barkley projects out to 1272 yards and 11 TDs.

Phil's usage in the passing game has gone down slightly since becoming the starter- 2.4 targets per game as the starter vs. 2.9 targets per game previously.

Now- the rush defenses that NY are facing over the last 4 weeks are tougher- all rank in the top half of the league in YPC against, and the Cowboys and the Colts are in the top 10, whereas Oakland and Cleveland are two of the worst.

How much better would PL have to be in the rushing game to negate Barkley's advantage in the passing game?

If PL gets to 1400 yards rushing and 15 TDs and maintains his lead on YPC, would that be viewed as better than barkley if he gets to ~1,900 Yards from Scrimmage and 14 total TDs?
Click to expand...
If Lindsay does everything you say and the Broncos are playing for a playoff spot in week 17 at home against the Chargers (a game that very well could be flexed into prime time), and he goes off again, I think that could tip the scales in his favor. I just think UDFA mostly get **** on in the NFL, and Barkley is definitely living up to being the #2 overall pick (whether he's actually worth that selection is a legitimate, but different conversation).
 
Darth Snow said:
Welcome to the bad take zone.
Phil:

YearSchoolConfClassPosGAttYdsAvgTDRecYdsAvgTDPlaysYdsAvgTD
2014ColoradoPac-12FRRB12793914.90141188.40935095.50
2015ColoradoPac-12SORB131416584.76272168.011688745.27
*2016ColoradoPac-12JRRB1424412525.116534939.3129717455.917
2017ColoradoPac-12SRRB1230114744.9142325711.2132417315.315
CareerColorado76537754.93611710849.3388248595.539
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TFOOT] [/TFOOT]

Barkley:
YearSchoolConfClassPosGAttYdsAvgTDRecYdsAvgTDPlaysYdsAvgTD
*2015Penn StateBig TenFRRB1118210765.97201618.1120212376.18
*2016Penn StateBig TenSORB1427214965.5182840214.4430018986.322
*2017Penn StateBig TenJRRB1321712715.9185463211.7327119037.021
CareerPenn State67138435.743102119511.7877350386.551
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TFOOT] [/TFOOT]
Click to expand...
Didn't realize that these guys were still in college.
 
Buffnik said:
Based on his size and conventional wisdom, that seems to be true. But his usage rate in college was the highest in the country and he never fumbled or wore down. I think he might just be one of those unicorns who defies everything we think we know. (Kind of like Drew Brees being an all-time QB despite being short, having mediocre arm strength and not being able to do anything with his legs to offset those limitations.)
Click to expand...
It's possible, but unlikely.
 
When does Nike come in with a truckload of cash and do a whole series of ads with Lindsay? His story is as compelling as they get. Makes for great “Just Do It” material, IMO.
 
Darth Snow said:
fify
Click to expand...
Ha. I notice you didn't post a graphic of their workload in the NFL.

Look, if a RB who is averaging 6 yards a carry could handle twice the carries, I'm sure the Broncos would be doing it. Phil is the man and will go on to have a great career, but I don't seem him as an every down back, and apparently the Broncos don't either.
 
Gary Indiana said:
Ha. I notice you didn't post a graphic of their workload in the NFL.

Look, if a RB who is averaging 6 yards a carry could handle twice the carries, I'm sure the Broncos would be doing it. Phil is the man and will go on to have a great career, but I don't seem him as an every down back, and apparently the Broncos don't either.
Click to expand...
Your assumptions are great and all, but relying on the Broncos coaching staff as your expert evidence is, well, problematic at best. If anything, Phil's been producing at a higher rate as his usage has increased.
 
Whatever the Broncos are doing with Lindsay, it’s working. That said, he was always great at catching the ball out of the backfield in college. I don’t understand the apparent reluctance to use him in that capacity in the NFL.
 
TSchekler said:
Is this the biggest dual UBL of all time, or are you both referring to something else that I'm missing? I'll assume the latter until confirmed.
Click to expand...
Tante wasn't joking. I think. Also, not a ubl. Didn't say the joke
 
Darth Snow said:
Tante wasn't joking. I think. Also, not a ubl. Didn't say the joke
Click to expand...
I think Tante knew the Giants are out of the playoff race, last in their division and sitting at 4 wins currently. I think Jeric's bolding of that section of his post and saying "Hmmm" is a fringe UBL and you backing it up is as well. We might need to consult a third party for confirmation...
 
TSchekler said:
I think Tante knew the Giants are out of the playoff race, last in their division and sitting at 4 wins currently. I think Jeric's bolding of that section of his post and saying "Hmmm" is a fringe UBL and you backing it up is as well. We might need to consult a third party for confirmation...
Click to expand...
No.
 
It's going to be fun playing Madden 19 with Lindsay as the starting RB for the Broncos.
 
TSchekler said:
Barkley: 954 yards rushing (4.9 ypc), 8 TDs
Lindsay: 937 yards rushing (6.1 ypc), 8 TDs

The problem lies in the receiving game, where Barkley has 74 receptions for 602 yards and 4 TDs, while Phil only has 25 rec for 189 yards and 1 TD. If the Broncos would use PL in the same capacity the Giants use Barkley he'd be a lock for ROY and probably right there with Gurley for MVP.

Click to expand...

You're gonna hurt chip's feelings if you keep dissing Barkley...
 
Buffarino said:
You're gonna hurt chip's feelings if you keep dissing Barkley...
Click to expand...
I'm not even dissing Barkley. Dude is legit and is going to be considered a Todd Gurley/LeVeon Bell caliber RB going forward. He just accounts for about 40% of the Giants' offensive production, whereas Lindsay only accounts for 25% of Denver's. Specifically pertaining to the running game, Barkley accounts for ~80% of the Giants' production, while Lindsay only accounts for ~60% of Denver's. All I'm saying is if Lindsay was used in the same capacity for Denver that Barkley is for the Giants, this wouldn't really be considered a debate.
 
TSchekler said:
I'm not even dissing Barkley. Dude is legit and is going to be considered a Todd Gurley/LeVeon Bell caliber RB going forward. He just accounts for about 40% of the Giants' offensive production, whereas Lindsay only accounts for 25% of Denver's. Specifically pertaining to the running game, Barkley accounts for ~80% of the Giants' production, while Lindsay only accounts for ~60% of Denver's. All I'm saying is if Lindsay was used in the same capacity for Denver that Barkley is for the Giants, this wouldn't really be considered a debate.
Click to expand...

I feel the same. It was very much tongue in cheek that Barkely is doing very well, but hasn't really elevated the team, while Lindsay has absolutely carried the Broncos into playoff consideration, especially during the past 3 games. So I say let Barkely have OROY,

Lindsay for MVP!!!!!!
 
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