Plati let you in the bunker, eh?
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One buffalo's view from the sidelines: Here is where i have landed on this
- Thread starter Wyo Buff
- Start date
Plati let you in the bunker, eh?
Playing a bit of a devil's advocate, two things must be pointed out. First, while the 28 graduating players may not have been very good, they will definitely be better and stronger than if they were freshmen. Second, the learning curve for a head coach and two new coordinators is clearly very steep. The staff did show clear improvement at the end of last year.
Now they are learning why you don't play too many freshmen early in their pro career, and why you can't teach pro-ball to kids just out of high school. If they go back to fundamentals and keep gaining coaching experience, maybe we'll see improvement.
This is the juice you must drink until they arrive at 0-12. :devil2:
I think the way you worded this is interesting. Than if THEY were freshmen or than if they were freshmen? Are you saying a player is better as a senior than as a frosh (as in Senior Tyler Hansen is better than Frosh Tyler Hansen) or as in a senior is automatically better than a frosh? I´d agree with only one of the two statements.
Yes, but this kind of makes you wonder why a program that was "burned to the ground" (for real, this time) went out and hired a HC, DC and OC that had little to no experience whatsoever in this role, right?
You can spin this any way you want, but you have to concede that either 2011 or 2012 was going to be an "achieve something" season (as in at least make a serious push for a bowl game). Most people were probably willing to give this staff a free pass for one season, me included, as most acknowledge that HaLk was terrible and left the cup board bare or just plain took it with him, but few are willing to give them a free pass for 2. They either had to show people something last season with the 28 seniors or this season, with a roster that is 50%+ of Embree players.
They can, of course, still do so now, but they threw the easiest 3 games on the schedules away in sometimes disgusting fashion and have no more excuses left.
Wyo,
I respect your stance on this. Maybe if my personal relations to those involved were more similar to yours I would be in the same place. I have tried to remove emotion and sentiment from my position as best I can (i.e., How would I view the current CU situation if I was analyzing a similar historic program like UCLA or Texas A&M?). When I look at it that way, I can't recommend that CU continues on the present course. Bringing the emotion and sentiment in, I will support the staff for as long as they're here and hope beyond hope that they quickly turn this around in a big way.
I respect your stance on this. Maybe if my personal relations to those involved were more similar to yours I would be in the same place. I have tried to remove emotion and sentiment from my position as best I can (i.e., How would I view the current CU situation if I was analyzing a similar historic program like UCLA or Texas A&M?). When I look at it that way, I can't recommend that CU continues on the present course. Bringing the emotion and sentiment in, I will support the staff for as long as they're here and hope beyond hope that they quickly turn this around in a big way.
I respect Wyobuff's opinion. I am just a fan and alum. I want Embo and staff to succeed becasue that is the quickest way out of the cellar.
But as others have pointed out, the team has regressed, and is now a laughing stock. I thought the idea of a bowl game was a stretch (Embo said it, not me), I thought 4-5 wins was more likely. Any scenario for that many wins included taking down the teams where the Buffs had an edge in talent, in other words, the first three. CU lost all three, and one in record setting embarassing fashion.
I hope they are successful, but it is very difficult for me to see how that will happen in light of what I have seen so far.
But as others have pointed out, the team has regressed, and is now a laughing stock. I thought the idea of a bowl game was a stretch (Embo said it, not me), I thought 4-5 wins was more likely. Any scenario for that many wins included taking down the teams where the Buffs had an edge in talent, in other words, the first three. CU lost all three, and one in record setting embarassing fashion.
I hope they are successful, but it is very difficult for me to see how that will happen in light of what I have seen so far.
Embree is not going to get fired mid-season. It's just not going to happen. Let's see what this team looks like at the end of the season. The freshman won't be inexpienced; they'll have tons of plays and practice reps under their belts. If it looks anything remotely like the team that quit against UCLA or got smoked by Fresno, the decision will be clear cut.
Well, if you're going to put it THAT way! :lol:
Maybe my argument is more "heart" than "head". That said, I do know these guys and I know they have been coaching in a variety of places and for a wide variety of headcoaches for many years. They know X's & O's and Embree has a plan for a Stanford-style offense. The O-line has been horrendous and that really makes me sick. I think everything starts up front. I know that Embree, EB and Kavavis bleed black and gold and I know that they want to do this right more than anyone. They have put their legacies at stake in this. I actually see huge upgrades in talent on defense but they are all true or redshirt freshman. The biggest disconnect we have now is that we do not have any 22 year old men to lead these 18 year old boys. That will take time to develop although they are in the fire right now. My "head" argument is that switching systems and cultures once again does nothing to address the leadership vacuum that it creates. We need these 18 year old boys to be our 22 year old leaders in 4 years. Continuity of culture and system is critical to long-term success in this regard.
crazycolo1
New Member
Absolutely it's more heart than head, but isn't that one of the aspects that makes college football great?
I would really love to hear your thoughts on our OL issue. You're right that it all starts up front, but I don't know enough to know if the problem is personnel/coaching/technique/S&C/witches curse/whatever. They can't run block. They can't pass pro. How in the world can we be this bad on the OL?
Solid argument. Would you get behind some significant staff changes and re-alignment of responsibilities if things don't dramatically improve over the course of the season?
Here's one that I'll throw out there without giving it much thought:
Defense: Brown fired, Chap promoted to DB Coach (or someone from outside brought in) to give us a young recruiter on the staff, either Tui or Kanavis move on with the other taking over all DL responsibilities, and someone with real DC experience brought in to run that side of the ball.
Offense: EB gives up play-calling duties, Brookhart takes over playcalling, Marshall is fired and replaced with a successful young OL Coach.
I get the feeling watching them that they are not comfortable with their assignments. You cannot get by on physical talent alone at O-line and everyone must know what they are doing or it screws up the whole tempo. When you are not confident in your assignment you lose a fraction of a second and that is all it takes. Great offensive lines are ones that have played together for a while and no longer have to "think" about the physical mechanics of their assignments. The physical aspect becomes as much of a muscle memory as breathing or walking. That leaves the generally above-average intellects of the offensive lineman with the time necessary to fine tune and to comprehend last-second audibles without freezing. These guys look like they are thinking too much. I seriously doubt they are cowards or physically incapable of performing. They simply need to simplify, learn and react without questioning their insticts.
I think this is where my biggest issue is. I absolutely want Embo and crew to succeed, but I don't think that they are the quickest way out of the cellar. I think most experienced and competent coaches at this level would have had us at 2-1 right now at minimum and with a decent amount of momentum going into conference play. Instead, we aren't just bad, we aren't just really bad, we are recordbreaking bad...and against horrible competition. It is not like these losses were to Bama, or USC or Ohio State. If they were, I would still be on board.
Deleted member 807
Guest
Good, Fast, Cheap. Pick two.
Everyone wants CU to be good, do it quickly, and not go bankrupt in the process.
The sitting admistration picked cheap with hopes of being good. They did not pick a path to be good fast...because they are cheap.
I do not call for Embree's head. The bad losses in September are the result of his bossess willfully putting him in a position to fail. This 0-3 start is retribution for Hawkins year 5, followed by a hire on the cheap.
You get what you pay for.
I will not call for Embree's head until after there is accountability placed upon those who were poor stewards of the CU brand before the ink was dry on the contract of HCJE. A boss should never put a new hire in a position to fail.
I will continue to travel to road games and will continue to buy football tickets out of reverence for the student athletes who choose to wear black and gold.
As a walk on member of the CU track and cross country team, I am keenly aware that a part of my football ticket trickles down to the non-revenue sports. I do not want Mark Wetmore to pay for the sins of bad football.
Everyone wants CU to be good, do it quickly, and not go bankrupt in the process.
The sitting admistration picked cheap with hopes of being good. They did not pick a path to be good fast...because they are cheap.
I do not call for Embree's head. The bad losses in September are the result of his bossess willfully putting him in a position to fail. This 0-3 start is retribution for Hawkins year 5, followed by a hire on the cheap.
You get what you pay for.
I will not call for Embree's head until after there is accountability placed upon those who were poor stewards of the CU brand before the ink was dry on the contract of HCJE. A boss should never put a new hire in a position to fail.
I will continue to travel to road games and will continue to buy football tickets out of reverence for the student athletes who choose to wear black and gold.
As a walk on member of the CU track and cross country team, I am keenly aware that a part of my football ticket trickles down to the non-revenue sports. I do not want Mark Wetmore to pay for the sins of bad football.
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Didn't read the whole thread, but I'm with Wyo, you know, shoulder to shoulder.
If you look at the competitive portion of the games against FBS teams (CSU and 1st half of Fresno), CU is averaging 1.8 yards/rush. Horrendous.
rodrigo
Well-Known Member
YMSSR. When it comes to CU football I'm always "unapologetically" all in.
fervorfactor
Active Member
AMEN brother. Somebody take charge.
Buffs4Life
Member
Thank you for this post, Wyo Buff. I needed to read this today. We had an 8 year old son that told us the same thing...10 years later, he's still "all in" and so are we. Shoulder2Shoulder and absolutely unapologetically. GO BUFFS!
I like what I have heard from Embree, but not what I have seen on the field this year. It would be great to see Embree turn the program around. But after the worst quarter of football in CU History changes need to be made. Bigger changes than moving EB down to the sidelines.
If we keep Embree as Head coach, we need to add a top Defensive Coordinator. If Dewayne Walker losses his job at NMSU, he would be a great addition as DC. Some one that can make adjustment on game day. We probably need a proven Offensive Coordinator too. It is hard to tell if Bieniemy's play calling is that bad with no OLine. We should get another OL coach. What about Brad Bedell?
One thing I hated to hear was the coaches out of control screaming at the players on the sidelines and storming off pouting. Does anyone else have more insight on the player/coaches relationships or how the players are responding to the coaching?
If we keep Embree as Head coach, we need to add a top Defensive Coordinator. If Dewayne Walker losses his job at NMSU, he would be a great addition as DC. Some one that can make adjustment on game day. We probably need a proven Offensive Coordinator too. It is hard to tell if Bieniemy's play calling is that bad with no OLine. We should get another OL coach. What about Brad Bedell?
One thing I hated to hear was the coaches out of control screaming at the players on the sidelines and storming off pouting. Does anyone else have more insight on the player/coaches relationships or how the players are responding to the coaching?
WyoBuff. I agree with you on the issue of lacking upperclass leaders. We have very few upperclassmen period, fewer who are playing prominently enough to be looked at as legit leaders, then we add some circumstances and we are left with almost none. Major and Rippy would be logical guys but both are struggling to overcome serious knee injuries. Neither is back to pre-injury form so they aren't able to focus as much on leadership as they would otherwise. Pericek is playing well but seems to be the lead by example type, not naturally outspoken. Bonsu is in his first year of contributing and not in position. The logical guy left is Polk but the injury has put him out and it is easy to see how much he is missed.
Offense is even thinner but similar results.
I like and respect Embree and EB and Brown and want very much for them to succeed. I still don't get the Brown hate (other than that he was here with Hawk.) If you are going to fire Brown as a coordinator you better d***ed well fire EB as one as well since the offense and defense have been very similarly inept so far.
Bottom line is they can fire certain individual position coaches but you can't replace a staff at this time of year. The guys you would want to hire are almost all working elsewhere and not available. Embree and the staff will have most if not all the rest of this season to turn it around and I hope they do but I don't hold out high hopes. This team gives all indications that they have tuned out the coaches and when that happens it doesn't come back. I wouldn't be surprised if with more experience and some time to develop Embree doesn't become a very good college HC but it isn't going to be this job when it happens.
One thing we have to remember is that there are a lot of players out there busting their butts in a Buff uniform. Some may not be putting the full effort into it due to a lack of motivation from the coaches, confusion, frustration, etc. but I know that there are others doing everything they can, playing through both physical and emotional pain with the losing, and willing to give everything they have to do their part in turning it around.
While we may give out opinions of the coaches and the administration (and even of each other) we are talking about grown people who can and should take it. At the same time these kids, even those who may make mistakes or appear completely lost or frustrated are out there as Buffs and deserve our support and to be treated with respect.
As I look back over the past week I can say that even some of my post have pushed the line a bit with the players. WyoBuffs post in this treat have made me think and realize that I need to keep it all in perspective.
I also have stated before that whether it is Embree or the staff that follows him I think we are at the bottom and will be coming up. Our young talent is a step ahead of where we were at the end of the Hawk era and I am confident that we will be trending up.
Offense is even thinner but similar results.
I like and respect Embree and EB and Brown and want very much for them to succeed. I still don't get the Brown hate (other than that he was here with Hawk.) If you are going to fire Brown as a coordinator you better d***ed well fire EB as one as well since the offense and defense have been very similarly inept so far.
Bottom line is they can fire certain individual position coaches but you can't replace a staff at this time of year. The guys you would want to hire are almost all working elsewhere and not available. Embree and the staff will have most if not all the rest of this season to turn it around and I hope they do but I don't hold out high hopes. This team gives all indications that they have tuned out the coaches and when that happens it doesn't come back. I wouldn't be surprised if with more experience and some time to develop Embree doesn't become a very good college HC but it isn't going to be this job when it happens.
One thing we have to remember is that there are a lot of players out there busting their butts in a Buff uniform. Some may not be putting the full effort into it due to a lack of motivation from the coaches, confusion, frustration, etc. but I know that there are others doing everything they can, playing through both physical and emotional pain with the losing, and willing to give everything they have to do their part in turning it around.
While we may give out opinions of the coaches and the administration (and even of each other) we are talking about grown people who can and should take it. At the same time these kids, even those who may make mistakes or appear completely lost or frustrated are out there as Buffs and deserve our support and to be treated with respect.
As I look back over the past week I can say that even some of my post have pushed the line a bit with the players. WyoBuffs post in this treat have made me think and realize that I need to keep it all in perspective.
I also have stated before that whether it is Embree or the staff that follows him I think we are at the bottom and will be coming up. Our young talent is a step ahead of where we were at the end of the Hawk era and I am confident that we will be trending up.
89BUFF89
Well-Known Member
I will always support the Buffs but still demand accountability from those being paid a fine sum for their work. I want to see some tangible evidence of improvement this year. I am afraid though if we go 0-12 that Embree will be unable to recruit another good class of athletes. Mac was a once a generation guy that could still sell the vision even after a string of lousy years, plus he changed to the wishbone and shook up his staff. It sure would help if the admin. finally announced a major facilities upgrade with shovels hitting dirt soon. I really am rooting for Embree but I am afraid he may have been set-up to fail by the admin. and will be a short term sacrificial cow. Hope I am wrong.
MINN-Buffalo
Member
I agree.
:yeahthat: I have no problem supporting JE and the boys, it's the leadership that gives me a rash.
Great point. What year(s) did you run XC? We may have crossed paths.
Walter White
Member
Wow, CU XC is about as cool as you can get in my book. No joke. I’ve read “Runnign With The Buffaloes” a couple of times. I love reading anythign that has ever come out of Wetmore’s mouth.
Walter White
Member
I think he ****ed a lot of XC runners. Maybe Skiddy was one of them?
now that you mention it that chick did have a huge hands and her adams apple was a big as her balls.