So, once CU cashes those Big Ten checks

[SINKRATZ]

CU can’t ad a lacrosse team because they are barely Title IX compliant.

DU’s stadium was built before they new the kind of draw that lacrosse would be. They now regularly have 3000 fans at a school with about 5700 undergrads. They are working on plans to expand the stadium to get to around 6000 seats.

If DU can draw 6000 then CU should easily be able to draw 5000. Especially if they are in the BIG with Johns Hopkins, OSU, Michigan, Maryland, Rutgers and Penn State.

Given the rabid lacrosse fan base in the front range. Those teams would easily draw 5000.

DU has become elite because kids want to play in Colorado. Recruiting lacrosse players to CU would be a piece of cake. The flatirons would actually matter to lacrosse players. CU would be elite in no time.

What I mean by all of this is that you are 100% wrong.

You are making a couple HUGE leaps in logic: First that the only thing preventing DU from drawing 6,000 fans/game is the size of its stadium - that is simply not true, and second that CU could hope to have anywhere near the same success just by existing and being in the BIG.

UVA is a national power in lacrosse, they won the national title in 2019 and play in a stadium that seats 8,000, but average only about 2,000-3,000 per game. That season, the most attendance they got at a home game was 4,400 when they hosted Notre Dame in the ACC championship game.

CU wouldn’t average 5,000 fans if they were a regular title contender and 10,000 is fantasy land.

 

[PAC MAN]

So when are they supposed to raze that family housing area? Conditions there were bad enough back in 1991 when I lived there...I can't imagine how dilapidated they are right now.

 

[SuperD]

Doesn't the B1G have some sort of rule that all schools in the conference have to have a wrestling program?

 

[SINKRATZ]

CU can’t ad a lacrosse team because they are barely Title IX compliant.

DU’s stadium was built before they new the kind of draw that lacrosse would be. They now regularly have 3000 fans at a school with about 5700 undergrads. They are working on plans to expand the stadium to get to around 6000 seats.

If DU can draw 6000 then CU should easily be able to draw 5000. Especially if they are in the BIG with Johns Hopkins, OSU, Michigan, Maryland, Rutgers and Penn State.

Given the rabid lacrosse fan base in the front range. Those teams would easily draw 5000.

DU has become elite because kids want to play in Colorado. Recruiting lacrosse players to CU would be a piece of cake. The flatirons would actually matter to lacrosse players. CU would be elite in no time.

What I mean by all of this is that you are 100% wrong.

I read this again and now I think you’re being sarcastic (CU elite, Flatirons matter to lacrosse players, etc). If not, yikes.

Not to further throw this post back in your face but here’s an article on lacrosse attendance from 2017 (so a couple years old but should still help illustrate this point). Only 5 programs averaged more than 3,000 in average attendance, only 2 (Maryland and Syracuse) averaged more than 4,000. Not a single program averaged 5,000 in attendance.

So again, no a CU lax program would not average 5,000-10,000.

 

[CarolinaBuff]

I saw the numbers once and I believe the number was about 1.1 million a year.

How does that compare to baseball?

 

[Agent Dave Kujan]

You are making a couple HUGE leaps in logic: First that the only thing preventing DU from drawing 6,000 fans/game is the size of its stadium - that is simply not true, and second that CU could hope to have anywhere near the same success just by existing and being in the BIG.

UVA is a national power in lacrosse, they won the national title in 2019 and play in a stadium that seats 8,000, but average only about 2,000-3,000 per game. That season, the most attendance they got at a home game was 4,400 when they hosted Notre Dame in the ACC championship game.

CU wouldn’t average 5,000 fans if they were a regular title contender and 10,000 is fantasy land.

1. The people at DU see it differently. The see 6000 in the seats as easily attainable
2. UVA has a grass hill (much like DU) that is packed with non paying students and fans who are not counted in the attendance.

 

[SINKRATZ]

1. The people at DU see it differently. The see 600 in the seats as easily attainable
2. UVA has a grass hill (much like DU) that is packed with non paying students and fans who are not counted in the attendance.

I repeat. - the elite lacrosse programs around the country average between 3,000-4,000 in attendance. Not one program averages 5,000 in attendance. But somehow you think CU will start a brand new lacrosse program and lead the nation in attendance? Get real.

Oh, and non-paying fans shouldn’t count in attendance figures for very obvious reasons.

 

[Agent Dave Kujan]

I read this again and now I think you’re being sarcastic (CU elite, Flatirons matter to lacrosse players, etc). If not, yikes.

Not to further throw this post back in your face but here’s an article on lacrosse attendance from 2017 (so a couple years old but should still help illustrate this point). Only 5 programs averaged more than 3,000 in average attendance, only 2 (Maryland and Syracuse) averaged more than 4,000. Not a single program averaged 5,000 in attendance.

So again, no a CU lax program would not average 5,000-10,000.

1. The Outlaws and Mammoth draw FAR more fans than any of the other professional lacrosse team. Colorado lacrosse fans are rabid.
2. Maryland is in a hotbed but they are competing for fans with Johns Hopkins, Loyola, Towson, Navy, UMBC, Georgetown, and several D3 schools. This doesn't mention that the Private HS league in Maryland is excellent and draws significant crowds. Lacrosse fans in Maryland have a lot more options.
3. Syracuse is nowhere near a major metropolitan area and those fans have other options as well. (Colgate, Cornell, Hobart) Plus they have been down lately
4. I agree with Buffnik that we should add a field sports only field and keep the games out of Folsom
5. With the BIG opponents we would have the best games in the front range. Far better opponents than DU or AFA.
6. CU would immediately be a very attractive option for the best players in the East and be the preferred school for the best players in the west (CO, CA, TX, WA which are all becoming hotspots) Western Canadians would flock to CU. In short, we could be elite very quickly

We would easily average 5000-10,000 fans in very short order.

I have spoken

 

[Agent Dave Kujan]

How does that compare to baseball?

i really don't know but I think a lacrosse would be a bit less. I think baseball teams have more games and travel more, but that is just a guess.

 

[Not Sure]

I think a renovation/expansion of the West side and Balch FH has major potential. Bigger/better beer garden, a few full service bars, big screens everywhere with actual TV game audio throughout. Basically, make Balch like the party deck at Coors Field. Not sure how feasible it would be but maybe even open up a viewing area of the field as well. Normal game tickets get you access, but you can buy tickets specifically for that area.

This is the correct answer. I didn’t even read anything last this.

 

[MtnBuff]

How does that compare to baseball?

i really don't know but I think a lacrosse would be a bit less. I think baseball teams have more games and travel more, but that is just a guess.

Baseball is more expensive as mentioned due to travel cost.

The idea of baseball in Boulder goes into the same category of Dave Logan for head coach or intentionally going to join the MWC so we can play our local "rivals" every year after recruiting the top 20 players from Colorado every year.

Lacrosse requires a field roughly the same size as soccer, not a big problem. Building a stadium for lacrosse would also mean a facility sharable for soccer and for field hockey and probably track and field if so desired.

Baseball requires a D1 level baseball only facility that takes up much more space and gets used less.

Baseball also doesn't work in Colorado springtime weather. It didn't work well when we had it, it won't work now.

Baseball would require significant out of state recruiting. Colorado produces some baseball talent but relatively little compared to most other states, what talent doesn't go to the pros leaves the state.

In contrast Colorado is developing as a solid talent source in lacrosse so you could get a core of players plus a solid walk on program (necessary for both sports due to limited scholarships) locally and Colorado would be a desirable destination for out of state prospects.

Lots of arguments here about how well lacrosse would draw. I can assure you that based on history and on surrounding schools that it would draw significantly better than baseball. When CU had baseball it didn't draw flies. Air Force, Wyoming don't draw well, CSU dropped the sport.

I am a baseball fan and enjoy watching college baseball. It isn't the right choice for CU now or in the foreseeable future.

 

[Agent Dave Kujan]

Baseball is more expensive as mentioned due to travel cost.

The idea of baseball in Boulder goes into the same category of Dave Logan for head coach or intentionally going to join the MWC so we can play our local "rivals" every year after recruiting the top 20 players from Colorado every year.

Lacrosse requires a field roughly the same size as soccer, not a big problem. Building a stadium for lacrosse would also mean a facility sharable for soccer and for field hockey and probably track and field if so desired.

Baseball requires a D1 level baseball only facility that takes up much more space and gets used less.

Baseball also doesn't work in Colorado springtime weather. It didn't work well when we had it, it won't work now.

Baseball would require significant out of state recruiting. Colorado produces some baseball talent but relatively little compared to most other states, what talent doesn't go to the pros leaves the state.

In contrast Colorado is developing as a solid talent source in lacrosse so you could get a core of players plus a solid walk on program (necessary for both sports due to limited scholarships) locally and Colorado would be a desirable destination for out of state prospects.

Lots of arguments here about how well lacrosse would draw. I can assure you that based on history and on surrounding schools that it would draw significantly better than baseball. When CU had baseball it didn't draw flies. Air Force, Wyoming don't draw well, CSU dropped the sport.

I am a baseball fan and enjoy watching college baseball. It isn't the right choice for CU now or in the foreseeable future.

Well said. You seem to know a thing or two. How many do you think lacrosse would draw?

 

[BuffsNYC]

1. The Outlaws and Mammoth draw FAR more fans than any of the other professional lacrosse team. Colorado lacrosse fans are rabid.
2. Maryland is in a hotbed but they are competing for fans with Johns Hopkins, Loyola, Towson, Navy, UMBC, Georgetown, and several D3 schools. This doesn't mention that the Private HS league in Maryland is excellent and draws significant crowds. Lacrosse fans in Maryland have a lot more options.
3. Syracuse is nowhere near a major metropolitan area and those fans have other options as well. (Colgate, Cornell, Hobart) Plus they have been down lately
4. I agree with Buffnik that we should add a field sports only field and keep the games out of Folsom
5. With the BIG opponents we would have the best games in the front range. Far better opponents than DU or AFA.
6. CU would immediately be a very attractive option for the best players in the East and be the preferred school for the best players in the west (CO, CA, TX, WA which are all becoming hotspots) Western Canadians would flock to CU. In short, we could be elite very quickly

We would easily average 5000-10,000 fans in very short order.

I have spoken

Why would CU be more attractive than DU? Aside from the aerospace engineers, I mean.

 

[Not Sure]

1. The people at DU see it differently. The see 6000 in the seats as easily attainable
2. UVA has a grass hill (much like DU) that is packed with non paying students and fans who are not counted in the attendance.

DU has a grass hill? Can you point that out to me? I’ve spent an inordinate amount of time in that particular campus the last year or so and for the life of me I can’t think of any hills near the lacrosse complex.

 

[SINKRATZ]

1. The Outlaws and Mammoth draw FAR more fans than any of the other professional lacrosse team. Colorado lacrosse fans are rabid.
2. Maryland is in a hotbed but they are competing for fans with Johns Hopkins, Loyola, Towson, Navy, UMBC, Georgetown, and several D3 schools. This doesn't mention that the Private HS league in Maryland is excellent and draws significant crowds. Lacrosse fans in Maryland have a lot more options.
3. Syracuse is nowhere near a major metropolitan area and those fans have other options as well. (Colgate, Cornell, Hobart) Plus they have been down lately
4. I agree with Buffnik that we should add a field sports only field and keep the games out of Folsom
5. With the BIG opponents we would have the best games in the front range. Far better opponents than DU or AFA.
6. CU would immediately be a very attractive option for the best players in the East and be the preferred school for the best players in the west (CO, CA, TX, WA which are all becoming hotspots) Western Canadians would flock to CU. In short, we could be elite very quickly

We would easily average 5000-10,000 fans in very short order.

I have spoken

Ok now I realize you’re just f**king with me - well played.

FYI, suggesting Maryland is impacted by having to compete with local high schools and Syracuse attendance could be impacted because they have to compete with Hobart was the giveaway.

 

[leftybuff]

Baseball also doesn't work in Colorado springtime weather. It didn't work well when we had it, it won't work now.

Yet, UNC, Mines and Metro all have baseball. And before you say it, UNC is D1.

Weather is the least persuasive reason for CU to not have a baseball team.

 

[MtnBuff]

Well said. You seem to know a thing or two. How many do you think lacrosse would draw?

I would simply be guessing at that number.

I think that 4,000-5,000 per game initially would be a fair number but I think it would also grow.

The crowds would also tend to be the kind of fans that CU wants involved, younger and more affluent.

I can guarantee that the high school kids I worked with have more interest in lacrosse than baseball, very non-scientific observation tells me that at the high school level lacrosse draws bigger crowds, especially with students. As a part of the "student culture" at CU I think it would be a popular addition. Lacrosse appeals to younger fans because of the constant action.

Hire the right people to run it, build a winning program and I could see those numbers go up well above 5,000.

It would not come close to basketball in revenue because ticket prices would be lower and you wouldn't have the media revenues but from a financial standpoint it would come closer to breaking even than any other option available (other than ice hockey which is a whole different discussion.)

 

[SINKRATZ]

I would simply be guessing at that number.

I think that 4,000-5,000 per game initially would be a fair number but I think it would also grow.

The crowds would also tend to be the kind of fans that CU wants involved, younger and more affluent.

I can guarantee that the high school kids I worked with have more interest in lacrosse than baseball, very non-scientific observation tells me that at the high school level lacrosse draws bigger crowds, especially with students. As a part of the "student culture" at CU I think it would be a popular addition. Lacrosse appeals to younger fans because of the constant action.

Hire the right people to run it, build a winning program and I could see those numbers go up well above 5,000.

It would not come close to basketball in revenue because ticket prices would be lower and you wouldn't have the media revenues but from a financial standpoint it would come closer to breaking even than any other option available (other than ice hockey which is a whole different discussion.)

#1 lacrosse draw in the country right out of the gate? You’re delusional and I’m convinced he’s trolling with the 5,000-10,000 suggestion.

 

[MtnBuff]

Yet, UNC, Mines and Metro all have baseball. And before you say it, UNC is D1.

Weather is the least persuasive reason for CU to not have a baseball team.

How many here go to games at those places? How many period go to those games?

UNC plays in a home stadium (Jackson Field) that is generously listed as seating 1500, they have plenty of seats available for any game.

Metro, Mines, CSU-Pueblo, UCCS all have baseball. None of them draw many fans. Neither does Air Force.

And weather is an issue. Having to play most of your early schedule on the road, having to cancel or postpone multiple games due to snow doesn't lead to building strong teams or strong fan support.

I know people love baseball. The older you are the more likely you are to be a dedicated fan. That doesn't change the reality that baseball at CU makes little to no sense in light of other, much better alternatives.

 

[MtnBuff]

#1 lacrosse draw in the country right out of the gate? You’re delusional and I’m convinced he’s trolling with the 5,000-10,000 suggestion.

Even if you dropped it in half (which I think would be very low) how does that compare with reasonable expectations for other alternatives. No other men's sport you could add excluding hockey and maybe soccer would come close.

 

[Agent Dave Kujan]

Ok now I realize you’re just f**king with me - well played.

FYI, suggesting Maryland is impacted by having to compete with local high schools and Syracuse attendance could be impacted because they have to compete with Hobart was the giveaway.

You missed a lot of the argument. Try reading it again.

 

[SINKRATZ]

Even if you dropped it in half (which I think would be very low) how does that compare with reasonable expectations for other alternatives. No other men's sport you could add excluding hockey and maybe soccer would come close.

We shouldn’t be adding sports right now.

 

[Agent Dave Kujan]

#1 lacrosse draw in the country right out of the gate? You’re delusional and I’m convinced he’s trolling with the 5,000-10,000 suggestion.

1. We were the number one lacrosse draw for the Outlaws.
2. We are the number one lacrosse draw for the Mammoth.
3. DU is standing room only for their 3000 person stadium and they only have 5500 or so undergrads.
4. The 2014 World Games at Dick's were an enourmous draw. (I believe they sold out)

As I have said. Coloradoans support lacrosse

There is no reason to think that we couldn't get 5000-10,000 if we were in the BIG and be the number one draw in lacrosse.

 

[SINKRATZ]

You missed a lot of the argument. Try reading it again.

If you are being serious, I’m concerned about you.

To be clear, what you are suggesting is that CU could start a men’s lacrosse program and immediately be the top drawing program in the country, and perhaps draw double what any other lacrosse program draws.

I read your explanation and none of it is compelling. This is like suggesting that if DU started a football program they should easily draw 70,000 because Bronco fans are rabid and…other reasons.

 

[pcbuff]

Incur zero expense that doesn’t contribute to football winning. Add no new sports until football puts up three, eight win seasons in a row. Why add anything until a foundation is cemented. Certainly not a men’s program triggering another title nine response on the women’s side, that both will lose millions of dollars.

 

[MtnBuff]

We shouldn’t be adding sports right now.

I don't disagree with that statement in any way.

The supposition of the thread was in the event that CU athletics were to come into a significantly increased revenue stream (expanded BiG media $$) and needed to increase available sports which ones would make sense.

Until we are no longer going bargain basement on football hires, both HC and assistants, as well as "economizing" better known as being cheap on support staff for the program that pays the bills further stretching the budget for sports that would cost us money makes no sense.

It does make some sense though to have a general idea should circumstances change and adding sports be both funded and needed.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

1. We were the number one lacrosse draw for the Outlaws.
2. We are the number one lacrosse draw for the Mammoth.
3. DU is standing room only for their 3000 person stadium and they only have 5500 or so undergrads.
4. The 2014 World Games at Dick's were an enourmous draw. (I believe they sold out)

As I have said. Coloradoans support lacrosse

There is no reason to think that we couldn't get 5000-10,000 if we were in the BIG and be the number one draw in lacrosse.

Saying CU would become the most well attended lacrosse program in the country just because the Mammoth and Outlaws had the top attendance is some next level spin. The Broncos have (had?) one of the longest sell out streaks in the NFL, yet Folsom can't consistently sell out a 58k person stadium for CU football.

 

[leftybuff]

How many here go to games at those places? How many period go to those games?

UNC plays in a home stadium (Jackson Field) that is generously listed as seating 1500, they have plenty of seats available for any game.

Metro, Mines, CSU-Pueblo, UCCS all have baseball. None of them draw many fans. Neither does Air Force.

And weather is an issue. Having to play most of your early schedule on the road, having to cancel or postpone multiple games due to snow doesn't lead to building strong teams or strong fan support.

I know people love baseball. The older you are the more likely you are to be a dedicated fan. That doesn't change the reality that baseball at CU makes little to no sense in light of other, much better alternatives.

I guess everyone who has a D1 baseball team should not play because they don't draw. That is a lame argument. I pointed out the weather doesn't stop lesser, smaller AD's and it should not be a reason CU doesn't have one. Maybe the fact that every other P12 member has a baseball team is instructive. Even Utah can find a way, but CU can't. Maybe CU is the also ran AD in the P12.

Baseball is one of the most popular three sports in the NCAA. Football, basketball, baseball/softball. That is why those three are actually televised somewhere other than the P12 network. Football and basketball draw viewership, that is self-evident, baseball is number three. I could not find stats for baseball but the WCWS softball drew 755,000 average viewers while the men's lacrosse championship drew 399,000 viewers. EDIT: the CWS championship had 1.67 million viewers.

Baseball is a draw for TV. Lacrosse isn't. If the UT/OU move doesn't convince you, nothing will.

 

[SINKRATZ]

1. We were the number one lacrosse draw for the Outlaws.
2. We are the number one lacrosse draw for the Mammoth.
3. DU is standing room only for their 3000 person stadium and they only have 5500 or so undergrads.
4. The 2014 World Games at Dick's were an enourmous draw. (I believe they sold out)

As I have said. Coloradoans support lacrosse

There is no reason to think that we couldn't get 5000-10,000 if we were in the BIG and be the number one draw in lacrosse.

Pro and international tournament attendance is totally irrelevant. The Broncos draw 76,000 a game, but that doesn’t translate to similar attendance at CU.

DU is not standing room only. Here are their attendance numbers for their 8 home games in 2019 (pre-Covid):

1,965
2,240
1,579
1,913
2,443
2,187
1,004 (Big East Semi-Final)
1,500 (Big East Championship)

 

[PAHIBuff]

Bowling:
1. Equipment and uniforms are cheap.
2. The venues don’t need to be built.
3. Instant rivalry with the……Fuskers!
(Imagine the recruiting wars…..)
4. Adds a blue collar vibe that CU sorely needs.

C’mon, who’s with me? Buehler?