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USC is hiring Lincoln Riley from Oklahoma as its new HC

lawdogg said:
Not @manhattanbuff, but his point seems to be that CU can contend with other schools, but only if they are willing to heavily invest In coaches, support staff, and other infrastructure.
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And my point started with the landscape-changing media deal that's coming up plus a lot of fed up & motivated boosters.

It's irreconcilable because I'm talking about what will change & he believes it's a cycle that will only get worse with NIL & other realities which have made CU and others hopeless.
 
manhattanbuff said:
Read the messages and decide for yourself if he actually responded to what I wrote.
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lawdogg said:
Not @manhattanbuff, but his point seems to be that CU can contend with other schools, but only if they are willing to heavily invest In coaches, support staff, and other infrastructure.
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I get that, but all Nik is saying is that this year is the first 4 win season since 2015 and Manhattan is saying that’s the ceiling. It doesn’t take heavy investment to be a 5/6/7 win program. This was easily a 6 win team if they hired competent OC and OL coaches, something that they easily could have done, financially.
 
ahoelsken said:


Just going to leave this one here. USC got Riley because he knows what's coming for OU after the SEC move.
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OU also needs to recruit CA well. When they do, they're elite. It's why a lot of OU folks would have liked the Pac-12.
 
The Alabaster Yak said:
I get that, but all Nik is saying is that this year is the first 4 win season since 2015 and Manhattan is saying that’s the ceiling. It doesn’t take heavy investment to be a 5/6/7 win program. This was easily a 6 win team if they hired competent OC and OL coaches, something that they easily could have done, financially.
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Apparently you haven’t written what I wrote either.

1) we are at a ceiling because our financial commitment to quality coaching and recruiting is non-existent.
2) we can compete if we had more money. Currently, we do not have the boosters who are willing to pony up the money.

The world has changed. Nik thinks that things will go in cycles like they did when the playing field was more even. My belief is that, unless we have people who are willing to make 8-9 figure investments in the Colorado AD, we are cooked

This team got lucky to win four games in 2020 and 2021. Relying on luck is not a plan for sustained success.
 
manhattanbuff said:
Disagree wholeheartedly. As we found out with Tucker, recruiting requires spending the money on recruiting infrastructure and poneying up for assistants who are willing to recruit all of the time. We got lucky because that we got a glimpse. That Tucker has multiplied his salary in only a few seasons demonstrates just how expensive it is to put together a team who’s able to do that job well.
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This is also going to take a commitment from CU to build a consistently successful program-like everyone understanding having successful football in Boulder is a GOOD thing. Where's that been since the late 90s, guys?
 
manhattanbuff said:
Apparently you haven’t written what I wrote either.

1) we are at a ceiling because our financial commitment to quality coaching and recruiting is non-existent.
2) we can compete if we had more money. Currently, we do not have the boosters who are willing to pony up the money.

The world has changed. Nik thinks that things will go in cycles like they did when the playing field was more even. My belief is that, unless we have people who are willing to make 8-9 figure investments in the Colorado AD, we are cooked

This team got lucky to win four games in 2020 and 2021. Relying on luck is not a plan for sustained success.
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1. It doesn’t take 8-9 figure donations to be a 6 win program, even in this new era

2. If by “compete” you mean compete for 10-11 win seasons, then yes, I agree. If by “compete” you mean anything else, see #1

They won 4 games in 2020 out of the total of 6 they played. That’s not the same as being a 4 win team in a normal 13 game season. Quit being disingenuous with your arguments, especially if you’re going to continue being a condescending prick in every one of your responses.
 
chipwich said:
Now the big fish in a little pond. He will dominate in the PAC 12.

OU and UT will be victims of their own greed.
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Agree with you on Texas-I'd put them above only Vanderbilt in the SEC right now if they move this offseason. I think OU can get to bowls consistently in the SEC. If they're good with that, good for them. If not.....oops.

Riley's a hell of a coach-but I think its still going to take time to change the mindset there. They've underachieved since Carroll left for a reason. He should have a ton of success, but its not going to happen overnight.
 
I mean, there are still roughly the same number of teams and only two play at a time. The landscape may have changed, and there may be a widening gap between the top 8 (or so) teams and everybody else. But you can't leave everybody behind.
 
manhattanbuff said:
Apparently you haven’t written what I wrote either.

1) we are at a ceiling because our financial commitment to quality coaching and recruiting is non-existent.
2) we can compete if we had more money. Currently, we do not have the boosters who are willing to pony up the money.

The world has changed. Nik thinks that things will go in cycles like they did when the playing field was more even. My belief is that, unless we have people who are willing to make 8-9 figure investments in the Colorado AD, we are cooked

This team got lucky to win four games in 2020 and 2021. Relying on luck is not a plan for sustained success.
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Where I personally disagree with you is the notion that this program needs luck to get to four wins with the current level of financial investment. May be wrong, but I’m fully convinced the ceiling is higher as things presently stand. The lack of financial investment perhaps prevents CU from breaking thru as a consistent contender for conference championships.
 
ahoelsken said:
Agree with you on Texas-I'd put them above only Vanderbilt in the SEC right now if they move this offseason. I think OU can get to bowls consistently in the SEC. If they're good with that, good for them. If not.....oops.

Riley's a hell of a coach-but I think its still going to take time to change the mindset there. They've underachieved since Carroll left for a reason. He should have a ton of success, but its not going to happen overnight.
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You're really buying into that SEC narrative.
 
Uncle Ken said:
I mean, there are still roughly the same number of teams and only two play at a time. The landscape may have changed, and there may be a widening gap between the top 8 (or so) teams and everybody else. But you can't leave everybody behind.
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I think it could get more like it was before bigger conferences with equal revenue sharing along with scholarship limits. I just don't see CU being one of the schools that turns into pre-Snyder KSU.
 
The Alabaster Yak said:
1. It doesn’t take 8-9 figure donations to be a 6 win program, even in this new era

2. If by “compete” you mean compete for 10-11 win seasons, then yes, I agree. If by “compete” you mean anything else, see #1

They won 4 games in 2020 out of the total of 6 they played. That’s not the same as being a 4 win team in a normal 13 game season. Quit being disingenuous with your arguments, especially if you’re going to continue being a condescending prick in every one of your responses.
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Good post-but a couple of things. One, last year was a bit of an anomaly because we beat three teams from the state of California (UCLA, Stanford, and San Diego State) who dealt with COVID restrictions that were a lot tougher than what our group dealt with (I thought I read UCLA and Stanford weren't allowed to even practice together for a while)....even with the late coaching change.

I think you and I have the same perception of what this program is, Yak-there's no reason why this team can't make bowl appearances regularly. Neuheisel and Barnett were both able to do that. How that's been damn near impossible here since the "scandal" is beyond me......and the only explanation I can come up with is the admin doesn't give enough of a ****.
 
manhattanbuff said:
Apparently you haven’t written what I wrote either.

1) we are at a ceiling because our financial commitment to quality coaching and recruiting is non-existent.
2) we can compete if we had more money. Currently, we do not have the boosters who are willing to pony up the money.

The world has changed. Nik thinks that things will go in cycles like they did when the playing field was more even. My belief is that, unless we have people who are willing to make 8-9 figure investments in the Colorado AD, we are cooked

This team got lucky to win four games in 2020 and 2021. Relying on luck is not a plan for sustained success.
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I like to be optimistic but I think you are exactly right. Our struggles seem to be systemic and I don’t see an off ramp in the NIL era
 
ahoelsken said:


USC pulled this off because Riley hasn't been happy about the move to the SEC, and he's a smart enough guy to know he's going to be able to win a lot more in LA than he can in Norman after OU joins the league.

This isn't that hard.
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And he will be in the middle of the best football talent for recruiting in the nation. He’ll have his pick of the best QB’s for how ever long he stays.
 
Ultimately I think that @manhattanbuff and me think that the CFP has irrevocably changed the landscape and that the change will get worse for CU with NIL and an expanded play-off if you’re looking at the gap between us and the top 10-20 programs.

We might well gain ground on some ACC or B12 teams but as I have repeatedly stated I don’t think that’ll matter much as we’re heading for a point where it’ll be entirely and solely about those 10-15 or so programs who will absolutely dwarf everyone else and essentially operate a closed shop which might end with a super league type thing.

I also don’t think it’s a complete coincidence that we both follow European football closely where the exact same thing has happened and there are a lot of similarities as both are largely unregulated and following capitalist principles ONLY.
 
Uncle Ken said:
You're really buying into that SEC narrative.
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I might be-but think of it this way.....OU has 3 games a year in their league that are tough for them-Texas always gets up for them even though UT can't get out of their own way, Bedlam (we saw this last night) is never a gimme, and teams like K-State and Baylor give them trouble. That still leaves the games against people like Tech, Kansas, and Iowa State (who is probably headed back to irrelevance the minute Matt Campbell leaves-I don't buy that he turned down USC).

There are a lot fewer gimme wins in the SEC for them.
 
Big Jim said:
And he will be in the middle of the best football talent for recruiting in the nation. He’ll have his pick of the best QB’s for how ever long he stays.
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Obviously. I'm surprised the Nelson kid he signed before he left hasn't changed his commitment to USC.
 
BuffTuff said:
I’m jealous honestly. I know CU could never in our current state make a move like this but we are talking about a premier recruiter who can also coach and develop players especially QBs. We couldn’t beat them when they were dog sh*t past few years. Imagine when they stack 2-3 top 3 classes and 10 wins seasons.
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Unlike OU, Boulder doesnt need a top shelf program to get kids to Boulder like OU does to get kids to Norman. Thats a sad reality in our football problems.
 
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Texas will eventually get it right as they have the resources and are in Texas.

The politics there complicate things but UT has too many built in advantages for them to continue to fail.
 
Buffnik said:
New media deal coming soon. Also, things tend to change quickly when boosters get down to their last nerve.

Don't forget that CU's been through this before. Scandal, financial woes leading to cutting sports, Fairbanks fiasco. Then came the late 80s. This is a top 25 all-time program for a reason. It's one of the highest growth states in the nation. It will bounce back bigly
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Fist Pump Success GIF


Buffnik said:
Pac-12 teams will soon be making significantly more than ACC & Big 12 members. Population & economic trends favor our region. It's rock bottom, not the future normal.
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But still less than $EC and B1G schools
 
White_Rabbit said:
I just want to know what happened where we went from MT rolling in and bringing in the recruiting armada and then we did a 180, hire KD, and fire the entire recruiting department and replace them with bOb the meme
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I’d add that the we did the 180 within a week or so as we first went for Sark, who’d have fit with the MT mould. So it wasn’t even a continuous process over a few months or so but we essentially pivoted overnight.
 
Jens1893 said:
I’d add that the we did the 180 within a week or so as we first went for Sark, who’d have fit with the MT mould. So it wasn’t even a continuous process over a few months or so but we essentially pivoted overnight.
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Yeah.. Sark would've presumably been business as usual MT like and then boom.. KD and bob
 
ahoelsken said:
I might be-but think of it this way.....OU has 3 games a year in their league that are tough for them-Texas always gets up for them even though UT can't get out of their own way, Bedlam (we saw this last night) is never a gimme, and teams like K-State and Baylor give them trouble. That still leaves the games against people like Tech, Kansas, and Iowa State (who is probably headed back to irrelevance the minute Matt Campbell leaves-I don't buy that he turned down USC).

There are a lot fewer gimme wins in the SEC for them.
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I don't follow realignment because - for whatever reason - it doesn't interest me. Will the SEC be playing more conference games after Texas and OU join?

I agree that Alabama and two of the following: LSU, Auburn, Ole Miss and Texas A&M will be tough every year and the others will not be. Mississippi State and (historically) Arkansas have been gimmes. Mizzou has been down for a while. Yes, it's a tough football division, I'm not denying that. But I'm not seeing the big scary scenario you are.

I remember when Mizzou and Texas A&M left the Big 12 and doom and gloom was predicted. Both teams did really well their first season there.
 
When there has been a reason to donate the donors have stepped up.

Champions center got paid for, massive amounts of money came from individual donors for the new Medical Center in addition to the corporate donations.

The idea that poor little Colorado doesn't have people willing and capable of donating large sums of money is false.

The problem is that these are generally people who know what success is, who are familiar with success, and who generally don't like to associate themselves with things that aren't successful.

They look at the level of failure we have had for the past two decades, they look at an administration that either doesn't care or is happy with being below mediocre, they look at the program and simply say no or make a token donation.

These are people who don't like wasting money. Currently if I were very wealthy I wouldn't donate either, don't want to throw money down a rat hole.

Give these people reason to believe their money will make a real difference and that money will come in.

Win 6-8 for a couple years while building a roster that should win 8-10 and CU football is back on the budget for a lot of fans and donors alike.
 
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