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We now take you to College Park, Maryland... Durkin FIRED

J.R. Ewing said:
Did you read the initial article. It seems pretty obvious. The coaching staff was pushing them past the point of failure.
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the ESPN one? yes. I couldn't find a non-twitter version of the other one. But upon further review of the ESPN article, I'm still not seeing anything about pushing past the point of failure. lots of hazing type-stuff and coaches acting like drill-sergeant type-stuff, but nothing that sounds much different than what I've read or heard about most every big time football program. What did you read in the other link that jumped out as so different?

also, ever notice that the button labeled "top of thread" doesn't work on threads that span more than one page?
 
hokiehead said:
the ESPN one? yes. I couldn't find a non-twitter version of the other one. But upon further review of the ESPN article, I'm still not seeing anything about pushing past the point of failure. lots of hazing type-stuff and coaches acting like drill-sergeant type-stuff, but nothing that sounds much different than what I've read or heard about most every big time football program. What did you read in the other link that jumped out as so different?

also, ever notice that the button labeled "top of thread" doesn't work on threads that span more than one page?
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The dead player?
 
buff4bcs1985 said:
wouldnt mind poaching Loh to replace Benson
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No thanks. I don't want anybody connected to somebody else's mess. I'd have fired everybody involved on the spot. The idea that Rick Court gets brought up on manslaughter charges for McNair's death isn't that farfetched-and there's precedent for it.
 
leftybuff said:
The dead player?
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tragic, no question. But what makes that case so different than Stringer's such that, not only are coaches in danger of losing their jobs, but people are calling for criminal charges?
 
hokiehead said:
tragic, no question. But what makes that case so different than Stringer's such that, not only are coaches in danger of losing their jobs, but people are calling for criminal charges?
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Different time-That's why you see people like Mark Richt run practice during the evening during fall camp to avoid scenarios like that (did that at Georgia)......other people practice first thing in the morning to avoid this type of stuff happening.

I think player abuse can be bitched about too liberally-Bear Bryant would have been fired for the stuff he pulled in his heyday if he coached now, but the stuff guys like Eustachy and Mangino did pail in comparison to this. This staff was known to have abused players- What would you call throwing weights at players? Belitting people who pass out during drills? Somebody died during a workout he ran.
 
MtnBuff said:
Attorneys on the site.

Would it be possible that a player or players family could win a civil suit against a head coach (and the university but primarily the coach) saying that the coach knowingly or at least negligently used his control over scholarships and status on the team to force a player to engage in activity that resulted in permanent health issues or death?

If the jury awarded a judgement that made a significant dent in the coaches net worth would that be enough to change the culture in college football?
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I don't know Maryland law relating to this situation with public entities and employees, but in California the family definitely could, depending upon the facts. Damages against the coach personally might or might not have to be paid by the public employer. If the facts are egregious enough to warrant punitive damages against the coach, the public employer doesn't have to pay that.
 
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Buffnik said:
I fully expect a wrongful death lawsuit and a huge settlement.
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Heard today that might not be the case, damn well should be. It was something about a deal they are trying to give the family to keep it out of court, like a settlement. If I'm them, I say **** you to that. I guess there is a lot that goes into that though. Hope they can find some closure. I love football but it sure as hell isn't worth dying over.
 
Uncle Luko said:
Heard today that might not be the case, damn well should be. It was something about a deal they are trying to give the family to keep it out of court, like a settlement. If I'm them, I say **** you to that. I guess there is a lot that goes into that though. Hope they can find some closure. I love football but it sure as hell isn't worth dying over.
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If Maryland shows up with a check for 8 figures along with apologies and a list of people they’re going to fire in order to avoid a trial, I think the family would have to think hard about accepting it.
 
manhattanbuf said:
If Maryland shows up with a check for 8 figures along with apologies and a list of people they’re going to fire in order to avoid a trial, I think the family would have to think hard about accepting it.
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I would. Now that the President has publicly apologized, admitted guilt and seems committed to making significant changes to ensure nothing like this happens again, I can't see any motivation for going through the hassle and expense of a lawsuit if they came to me with a healthy settlement figure.
 
manhattanbuf said:
If Maryland shows up with a check for 8 figures along with apologies and a list of people they’re going to fire in order to avoid a trial, I think the family would have to think hard about accepting it.
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I hear ya, there would definitely be a thought to get on with it. I wouldn't do it but that's me.
 
Buffnik said:
I would. Now that the President has publicly apologized, admitted guilt and seems committed to making significant changes to ensure nothing like this happens again, I can't see any motivation for going through the hassle and expense of a lawsuit if they came to me with a healthy settlement figure.
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Speaking as a litigator, Righteous anger makes people do crazy things. Even if it isn't really Righteous after a while.
 
Man, that's about the only route they can go. The backlash, if they don't, would be pretty bad but rightfully so. Right the ship and try to improve the situation.
 
Duff Man said:
Rumor is Durkin, the AD, and President are all going to be axed.
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I hope other training staff get axed as well, essentially anyone at the workout. Plus Durkin and AD.

I’m not sure about Loh. His leadership was strong on the matter. He may be too wounded to survive though.
 
hawg1 said:
I hope other training staff get axed as well, essentially anyone at the workout. Plus Durkin and AD.

I’m not sure about Loh. His leadership was strong on the matter. He may be too wounded to survive though.
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Agree about the President. If some of the other university presidents had been willing to step forward and acknowledge the issues like he has it would have been much easier and quicker to change situations for the better.

Durkin should be the first to go, his program, he is ultimately responsible for what happens on a day to day basis.
All of the assistant coaches and the training staff. They work with the kids on a daily basis and are responsible for their health and safety.
I also find it hard to believe that the medical staff didn't have an idea of what was going on.
 
To me, it's really a no brainer. I can see trying to push a kid because you want to get the best out of him. Been there but when they show signs there is a problem, you get them off the field immediately. It's not even a discussion. I read some about this, I'd completely clean house. No matter what the president said, his name is gonna be attached to it. I know it isn't the fairest answer in the world but life rarely is.
 
There is a fine line between tough and crazy, some seem to flirt with that. They watched Remember the Titans too many damn times. The way temps are now and how dry it is in a lot of places, you might wanna, not really take it easy, but more make sure your guys are physically able to handle it. If they aren't, get them off the field to get the attention they need. I can't put it all on medical staff either, I know better than that.
 
Buffnik said:
I'd expect more with college since we're talking about thousands more athletes. But 27 to zero seems to still be out of whack and points to some issues with how colleges handle conditioning.
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115 college football programs at 100 players per team means 95 times as many players as the NFL with 60 players per 32 teams.

Still, that’s 27 too many deaths for something preventable in most situations with the right precautions.
 
As a U12 football coach, this is freaking me the **** out right now. We are just finishing conditioning week now and I have about 2-7 kids per day tell me they can't breathe/are about to puke/head is throbbing/etc...during warm ups. And I'm just talking about high knees, jumps, bear crawls...I'm not even talking about gassers (which we only do 8 for about 20 yards). I don't know whether to let them sit out or push them.
 
I blame their uniforms. If you dress the players to look like crash test dummies, eventually you treat them like they are crash test dummies.
 
CUAviator said:
As a U12 football coach, this is freaking me the **** out right now. We are just finishing conditioning week now and I have about 2-7 kids per day tell me they can't breathe/are about to puke/head is throbbing/etc...during warm ups. And I'm just talking about high knees, jumps, bear crawls...I'm not even talking about gassers (which we only do 8 for about 20 yards). I don't know whether to let them sit out or push them.
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Compounding it is the fact that kids aren't really good at deciphering what their bodies are telling them. Plus they may have never pushed themselves before, so they don't know what that feels like either.

I think the things to focus on probably are the objective measurements rather than self reported: actual heart rate, breathing rate and quality (wheezing / hyperventilating), and temperature.

It would probably be worth having a doctor's group do a presentation for the league too: here are specific signs to look for.
 
CUAviator said:
As a U12 football coach, this is freaking me the **** out right now. We are just finishing conditioning week now and I have about 2-7 kids per day tell me they can't breathe/are about to puke/head is throbbing/etc...during warm ups. And I'm just talking about high knees, jumps, bear crawls...I'm not even talking about gassers (which we only do 8 for about 20 yards). I don't know whether to let them sit out or push them.
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Quit being such a pussy!






Jk, you should listen to Ski.
 
CUAviator said:
As a U12 football coach, this is freaking me the **** out right now. We are just finishing conditioning week now and I have about 2-7 kids per day tell me they can't breathe/are about to puke/head is throbbing/etc...during warm ups. And I'm just talking about high knees, jumps, bear crawls...I'm not even talking about gassers (which we only do 8 for about 20 yards). I don't know whether to let them sit out or push them.
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skibum said:
Compounding it is the fact that kids aren't really good at deciphering what their bodies are telling them. Plus they may have never pushed themselves before, so they don't know what that feels like either.


It would probably be worth having a doctor's group do a presentation for the league too: here are specific signs to look for.
Click to expand...

This is a tough question. The suggestion about have a doctor present to the league is a good one, a better choice (and more available) would be to see if you can get a certified athletic trainer from a local pro team or college (one that isn't killing it's players) to help coaches determine where the lines are.

As skibum mentioned kids don't know what their bodies are saying to them. Compounding this is the sad fact that a lot of kids are just really out of shape. They get a ride to and from school and spend way to much time in front of a screen instead of being active. Many have never really pushed themselves in a meaningful way.
 
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