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CU has rejoined the Big 12 and broken college football - talking out asses continues

PAC MAN said:
What good is conference prestige for the Buffs if we can't reach the CFP or win games in the conference like the Buffs have done lately? The Big 8 built its prestige by sending teams like Nebraska & Oklahoma to the Orange Bowl and maintaining that for years including the Big 12. The new Pac-12 or Big 12 is an opportunity for CU to built its prestige up without the likes of Nebraska, Oklahoma, Texas, USC, and UCLA around.

CU with Coach Prime is a big opportunity for the Buffs to make a name for itself. CU built itself up by playing big name schools back then.

I started rooting for the Buffs because back then I just moved to Colorado from Texas and I hated Nebraska.

It's funny that you ask me this question when you hate Baylor just because their administrators insulted CU. That is small time compared to Nebraska.
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You’re leaving out key considerations about the b12, namely the exit fee penalty.

The exit fee is 2 years worth of revenue. So it could be ~$41M (tv rights $31 + playoffs $10) x 2 = $82M. That penalty runs for 99 years.

CU isn’t coming up with $82M to leave a conference a second time. Let’s be real, we would be there for good.

And over the course of the 99 years, the b12 will be 1) begging the B1G and SEC for playoff access, 2) begging ESPN and Fox to keep giving a s*** about them and not cut their revenue bc playoff rights and B1G/SEC costs will continue to rise.

So all of that plus the academic reasons which are massive as the CU system brings in $1.4B in research which dwarfs anyone in the b12.

As for the P12, Colorado has been as responsible for the P12 reputation - if not more so - than Stanford or Cal when it comes to competitiveness. We became a laughingstock due to our own undoing. Had nothing to do with our conference or other schools. Entirely self-inflicted.
 
Victory said:
You’re leaving out key considerations about the b12, namely the exit fee penalty.

The exit fee is 2 years worth of revenue. So it could be ~$41M (tv rights $31 + playoffs $10) x 2 = $82M. That penalty runs for 99 years.

CU isn’t coming up with $82M to leave a conference a second time. Let’s be real, we would be there for good.

And over the course of the 99 years, the b12 will be 1) begging the B1G and SEC for playoff access, 2) begging ESPN and Fox to keep giving a s*** about them and not cut their revenue bc playoff rights and B1G/SEC costs will continue to rise.

So all of that plus the academic reasons which are massive as the CU system brings in $1.4B in research which dwarfs anyone in the b12.

As for the P12, Colorado has been as responsible for the P12 reputation - if not more so - than Stanford or Cal when it comes to competitiveness. We became a laughingstock due to our own undoing. Had nothing to do with our conference or other schools. Entirely self-inflicted.
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I don't think the exit penalty that you speak of exists because the Pac-12 GOR expires next year and that is why USC & UCLA don't have to worry about exit fees on their way to the B1G.

Oklahoma & Texas are paying a combined $100M to move to the SEC because the Big 12 GOR they agreed to does not expire until 2025.
 
PAC MAN said:
I don't think the exit penalty that you speak of exists because the Pac-12 GOR expires next year and that is why USC & UCLA don't have to worry about exit fees on their way to the B1G.

Oklahoma & Texas are paying a combined $100M to move to the SEC because the Big 12 GOR they agreed to does not expire until 2025.
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I outlined the b12 exit fee. P12 does not have an exit fee.

You’re making it sound like moving to the b12 wouldn’t be so bad. It would be a massive strategic blunder that would limit CU’s freedom of movement going forward for a century.
 
If I may, I'll play the Swaim Game, however skeptical I am of at least some of his latest comments and speaking from a BYU perspective. First, taking just two Pac teams has major strategic consequences. If it happens, that will likely set off something approaching panic in at least some other Pac schools and a possible stampede to the Big-12 lifeboat. That's when those schools will learn that there aren't enough seats for everyone who wants to suddenly board, which gives the Big-12 additional leverage and selectivity. Bottom line: Those who go first are guaranteed a seat, whereas those who wait may be left on a sinking ship, whose TV contract negotiations will take another hit, possibly fatally so.

I don't see a likely scenario where Utah gets added. In addition to BYU already bringing the Utah market and more, due to its national fan base, Utah has spent the last dozen years wedding itself to the Pac-12 to a degree far beyond the other four corners schools. It was intended to separate itself from BYU and leave it for dead in the MWC or independence. The very thought of joining a conference in which BYU is not only a member but got there first is utter anathema and public humiliation beyond what Utah will stomach. That's why no school has exhibited more vitriol to the Big-12 and been more emphatic that it's the Pac or bust.

I could see the Pac taking Washington State, which brings the Pacific Time Zone and likely additive, ahead of SDSU or UNLV. The Arizona schools are PST for most of the football season so they and WSU can effectively put the Big-12 in the Pacific Time Zone. In any case, I fully expect that most (all?) of BYU's home games will be in the late night slot, as has been the case with independence.

If CU joins the Big-12, it will be interesting to see it play BYU, something that's only happened twice since World War II (1981 and 1988). If not and in either case, I wish you well in whatever the future holds.
 
I have gamed this out many times, and it is frustrating how badly the PAC 12 played its hand, and of course, some decisions were driven by USC’s double-dealing.

Without the ability to poach the Big 12 better members, the PAC‘s only reasonable expansion option is through G5 additions (SDSU, SMU). So, at this juncture, Kliavkoff is really trying to sell a streaming package with Apple. Exposure is the issue.

Gaming out the Big 12, that league could become much better if the better brands in the PAC jumped and then when the ACC eventually dissolves, they grab a few teams out east that don’t make it to the B1G or SEC. In this scenario, you have CU, AZ, Cal, Stanford, OR, Wash, plus Ga Tech, NC State, Va Tech, and Duke, for example, back east. That becomes a viable third league that also appeases the academic side of the house. Membership could vary, but you get the idea.
 
PAC MAN said:
What good is conference prestige for the Buffs if we can't reach the CFP or win games in the conference like the Buffs have done lately? The Big 8 built its prestige by sending teams like Nebraska & Oklahoma to the Orange Bowl and maintaining that for years including the Big 12. The new Pac-12 or Big 12 is an opportunity for CU to built its prestige up without the likes of Nebraska, Oklahoma, Texas, USC, and UCLA around.

CU with Coach Prime is a big opportunity for the Buffs to make a name for itself. CU built itself up by playing big name schools back then.

I started rooting for the Buffs because back then I just moved to Colorado from Texas and I hated Nebraska.

It's funny that you ask me this question when you hate Baylor just because their administrators insulted CU. That is small time compared to Nebraska.
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I can't tell what point you're trying to make with this word salad
 
Creebuzz said:
I have gamed this out many times, and it is frustrating how badly the PAC 12 played its hand, and of course, some decisions were driven by USC’s double-dealing.

Without the ability to poach the Big 12 better members, the PAC‘s only reasonable expansion option is through G5 additions (SDSU, SMU). So, at this juncture, Kliavkoff is really trying to sell a streaming package with Apple. Exposure is the issue.

Gaming out the Big 12, that league could become much better if the better brands in the PAC jumped and then when the ACC eventually dissolves, they grab a few teams out east that don’t make it to the B1G or SEC. In this scenario, you have CU, AZ, Cal, Stanford, OR, Wash, plus Ga Tech, NC State, Va Tech, and Duke, for example, back east. That becomes a viable third league that also appeases the academic side of the house. Membership could vary, but you get the idea.
Click to expand...
Makes much more sense for the Pac-12 and ACC to merge first.

Even if 4-6 teams leave, it would be most cost effective to bring in select B12 schools to the merged conference vs add P12+ACC to the B12.
 
Victory said:
I outlined the b12 exit fee. P12 does not have an exit fee.

You’re making it sound like moving to the b12 wouldn’t be so bad. It would be a massive strategic blunder that would limit CU’s freedom of movement going forward for a century.
Click to expand...

Had CU left the Pac-12 by now, the Pac-12 would be keeping CU's TV money as a form of exit fees until the expiration of the Pac-12 GOR next year. That is what the Big 12 has in this case. There's no real difference between the two in this case.

SPCoug said:
If I may, I'll play the Swaim Game, however skeptical I am of at least some of his latest comments and speaking from a BYU perspective. First, taking just two Pac teams has major strategic consequences. If it happens, that will likely set off something approaching panic in at least some other Pac schools and a possible stampede to the Big-12 lifeboat. That's when those schools will learn that there aren't enough seats for everyone who wants to suddenly board, which gives the Big-12 additional leverage and selectivity. Bottom line: Those who go first are guaranteed a seat, whereas those who wait may be left on a sinking ship, whose TV contract negotiations will take another hit, possibly fatally so.

I don't see a likely scenario where Utah gets added. In addition to BYU already bringing the Utah market and more, due to its national fan base, Utah has spent the last dozen years wedding itself to the Pac-12 to a degree far beyond the other four corners schools. It was intended to separate itself from BYU and leave it for dead in the MWC or independence. The very thought of joining a conference in which BYU is not only a member but got there first is utter anathema and public humiliation beyond what Utah will stomach. That's why no school has exhibited more vitriol to the Big-12 and been more emphatic that it's the Pac or bust.

I could see the Pac taking Washington State, which brings the Pacific Time Zone and likely additive, ahead of SDSU or UNLV. The Arizona schools are PST for most of the football season so they and WSU can effectively put the Big-12 in the Pacific Time Zone. In any case, I fully expect that most (all?) of BYU's home games will be in the late night slot, as has been the case with independence.

If CU joins the Big-12, it will be interesting to see it play BYU, something that's only happened twice since World War II (1981 and 1988). If not and in either case, I wish you well in whatever the future holds.
Click to expand...

That is what CU did when it was working to join the Pac-10 before UT & OU did. At least you will get to play those two in conference play before they leave for the SEC next year.

I have noted the same behavior that you say Utah has been displaying towards joining the Big 12 of late. I imagine CU would do the same thing if CSU was trying to join the same conference CU is in. If CU fans don't want CSU in a P5 conference, staying put in the Pac-12 is a must for the Buffs. If CU goes Big 12, the Pac-12 will ask CSU to join.

I have been in full agreement with you until you say that the Big 12 would be more likely to take WSU in than SDSU or UNLV. The Big 12 may have a school like Kansas State but WSU is even more remote from Seattle than KSU is from Kansas City. If KSU was trying to apply to a P5 conference at this point given what they have to offer, I don't think they get into a P5 conference at this point.

I have wanted to see CU play BYU in football for a long time since I started rooting for the Buffs the year after CU last played BYU. I'd warn you to not expect any warm greetings from a good number of the CU fanbase when those two meet in football given the cultural, social, and political differences between the two but aren't you used to that with the red heads from Salt Lake City? At least we would hate the color red equally. Being different from the other fanbases in the Big 12 had its own draw and that really went away when we joined the Pac-12. That is why I told the Pac-12 fanbases that the Pac-12 ought to add BYU because it would be similar to what Nebraska brought to the Big 12.

Going independent took some guts from BYU and it paid off in the form of that Big 12 invitation. Hope you are ready for that step up in competition that Big 12 basketball has to offer too but given your history in that sport, I think you will do just fine.
 
PAC MAN said:
While said conference (Pac-12) doesn't have the passion for football that the Big 12 has?

Is Berkley and Palo Alto going to be remotely passionate about sports like San Diego and Las Vegas will be?

What has bothered me about the Pac-12 is that it doesn't take sports as seriously as CU's former conference did.

Passion versus prestige...which one would you choose?
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San Diego is passionate about sports? Do they know that?
 
goalline said:
Somehow, the worst thread on allbuffs got worse.
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You forget what it's like to play outside? Realignment threads are hot at this time of the year.

Run Free Long Winter GIF by A Magical Mess
 
Goose said:
It ate the whole wheel of cheese. I'm not even mad. I'm impressed.
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Isn't this thread cheesy anyway? You would have thought this thread would have a shorter shelf life than that fake nacho cheese stuff in metal cans.
 
Victory said:
Makes much more sense for the Pac-12 and ACC to merge first.

Even if 4-6 teams leave, it would be most cost effective to bring in select B12 schools to the merged conference vs add P12+ACC to the B12.
Click to expand...
Agreed, but timing issue of ACC dissolution is the problem.

A collapse of the ACC would be a gift for the PAC 12. In fact, we should have trolls on their board advocating for the ACC demise like the Big 12 does on our boards.
 
Creebuzz said:
Agreed, but timing issue of ACC dissolution is the problem.

A collapse of the ACC would be a gift for the PAC 12. In fact, we should have trolls on their board advocating for the ACC demise like the Big 12 does on our boards.
Click to expand...
Interesting idea. P12 troll game would need to step it up. You’ve got the common USC and Oregon troll but outside of that it’s fairly intellectual.

ACC is in the same boat minus FSU which might have the dumbest fans online.

On the dissolution, yeah, if there’s a way to join forces without dissolution, that’s the lawyer-level move. As in a new ACC-P12 GOR carries over the same media exit fee clauses of the original ACC GOR but allows for the merger.
 
PAC MAN said:
The Big 12 isn't going to be so bad because we won't have OU & UT dominating the politics of the Big 12. The reason why I'm warming up to staying in the PAC is the easier road to the CFP as it appears to me. But will the Big 12 be more like C-USA 3.0 where the AAC is C-USA 2.0 and the actual C-USA is C-USA 1.0?

Assuming CSU replaces CU in the Pac-12, could the Ram fans make the argument that they are in the more prestigious conference? I think letting CSU go to the Big 12 and CU staying in the PAC could be the best option going forward.

At least we will have ESPN+ in the Big 12. If not, there's Apple TV+ in the PAC. Cheapest Apple TV is $129.99 on the Apple website. That is assuming your smart TV doesn't have the Apple TV app on it. @Liver mentioned that earlier.
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Almost all smart tvs if not everyone has Apple TV as an app
 
i am personally thankful that a byu fan has advised us on what we and the pac should do. allow me to write this down--1. don't wait because you will be ****ed so jump right away to the truck stop 12. 2. add washington state to the pac. and 3. **** utah.

hold on while i consider these insightful and relevant suggestions....


ok, i am ready to respond:

fu middle finger GIF
 
FightCu1414 said:
Almost all smart tvs if not everyone has Apple TV as an app
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Having all games on one streaming service (an app for that too) for one monthly price would be very nice to any fan. An added bonus would be the ability to watch those games on demand if you miss the game live.

From my perspective, staying in the P12 could be the best way to achieve that. A move to the Big 12 would still net you ESPN+ which is still a very attractive option. Based on that, I'd prefer the Big 12.
 
PAC MAN said:
Having all games on one streaming service (an app for that too) for one monthly price would be very nice to any fan. An added bonus would be the ability to watch those games on demand if you miss the game live.

From my perspective, staying in the P12 could be the best way to achieve that. A move to the Big 12 would still net you ESPN+ which is still a very attractive option. Based on that, I'd prefer the Big 12.
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100% I would prefer ESPN+. I love it for the Avs (being out of market). That said, I am guessing that appleTV could operate the same as ESPN+ to where it ends up being a wash. At some point though with most people moving to streaming services (youtubeTV, Hulu, amazon prime for TNF) there's going to have to be a breaking point where there's a platform that you can "switch" channels between the Apps.
 
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