La Russa and Adams are head-scratchers to me
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Official Coaching Staff Reasoned Thoughts/ Meltdown Thread
- Thread starter buffaholic
- Start date
La Russa and Adams are head-scratchers to me
Agreed if i was hired for a turn around gig (something i do for work) I'd want to bring people with me whom i trusted, knew i worked well with, could count on, and understood their roles in the team. I look at what coach MacIntyre is doing as simply that. He knows how these guys work and he trusts them, hopefully he wont over pay them and we can use the cash elsewhere, but building an all-star team of guys who may not fit together is a dangerous way to rebuild.
We absolutely need on-field talent here, but the last staff was supposedly comprised of recruiting studs and we saw how that turned out. I'd rather roll the dice with a staff that has proven they can coach and that recruiting will follow with on the field progress and wins.
Walter White
Member
This is how you get off the floor:
3-0 in non conf
3-6 in p12 play
This is doable and is a legit expectation for the first year. The absolute key is to win all of the non conf games. Anything less than 3-0 in the non conf games is a failure.
Except MacIntyre has coached in the SEC, ACC, and NFL... so his coaching "tree" extends there. And that last part is wrong imo. We kinda saw that with Embree after Hawkins. It was an "anything but Hawkins" is better, which is why we went with a former Buff. Now it's an "anything but Embree." Any staff that isn't copied and pasted is bad. The answer lies in the middle imo. Take SJSU's top assistants and fill in the rest with outside guys
I'm not going to have a meltdown over this, but I wish we went with some more proven guys that have coached in BCS conferences. I do kinda like that we have a pretty young staff, though. Still going to hold out some hope that we fill the RB and WR positions with said proven BCS guys.
HCMM has a tree that covers the SEC & ACC & NFL and yet he's choosing the guys he worked with at SJSU says a lot to me. IMO, it just points out how much of an integral part he believes they were in SJSU's turnaround & success. I want that type of turnaround here and if those guys did it before, I'm more than willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.
Besides, there are supposedly 3(?) positions that haven't been filled or confirmed to be SJSU guys. I know it's the dead season right now, but you should really wait until the staff is officially announced before freaking out :thumbsup:
Conceptually, the same could be said for the offensive side of the ball. Given Lindgren's career arc, it doesn't seem that he'll be the OC for Colorado for very long.
I would argue this is the absolute best case scenario for next year.
agree
Is it stupid to think that given the massive rebuilding job we need here that we shouldn't use all our available resources (including a grnerous salary pool) to rebuild successfully?
Imagine you hire a contractor to rebuild your house and you give him a budget of $1 million. Now suppose when he's finished he comes in $200,000 under budget but he gave you Ikea cabinets, linoleum floors, Formica countertops, and one fewer bedroom than you wanted. I'd be pissed, and it would be even worse if he spent the full budget and you still ended up with linoleum, Formica, and not enough bedrooms.
There's a budget and we should be using it as best we can to most effectively rebuild this program.
buffs04
Well-Known Member
Before we rewrite history I think it is important to acknowledge that this coaching search was declared from the outset by the Athletic Department and the University to be an effort to make a "big hire" and that that isn't what is actually happening. We are overpaying to import essentially an entire coaching staff from a team that has had one great year in a conference that isn't even upper tier when compared only to non-BCS conferences.
Dismissal of a mixed reaction to the news that all or almost all of SJSU's staff is coming here as whining is disingenuous. We were told repeatedly after Embree was hired that the school was going to invest 1) in a big time coaching staff and 2) in facilities. Neither of those things are actually happening. Complaints about that are perfectly valid. Bohn and CU's administration said one thing and did another. CU needed a splash. It didn't happen.
For clarity's sake, I am quite happy with our choice of head coach (although we are overpaying). I think the choice of assistants is extremely disappointing. The reason why these guys make less and should cost less is because they are a risk. Salary is a function of expected performance: these guys could be great, but they could be in over their heads in the Pac-12. After our previous two debacles, it would have been nice to have some assistants or coordinators who are proven commodities.
Dismissal of a mixed reaction to the news that all or almost all of SJSU's staff is coming here as whining is disingenuous. We were told repeatedly after Embree was hired that the school was going to invest 1) in a big time coaching staff and 2) in facilities. Neither of those things are actually happening. Complaints about that are perfectly valid. Bohn and CU's administration said one thing and did another. CU needed a splash. It didn't happen.
For clarity's sake, I am quite happy with our choice of head coach (although we are overpaying). I think the choice of assistants is extremely disappointing. The reason why these guys make less and should cost less is because they are a risk. Salary is a function of expected performance: these guys could be great, but they could be in over their heads in the Pac-12. After our previous two debacles, it would have been nice to have some assistants or coordinators who are proven commodities.
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Please expound.
What on Earth do you think a "big time hire" IS for CU at this point? We have a proven coach. A very good Xs and Os guy that virtually every expert (and pseudo-expert) who has written about this hire for the national media proclaims a good fit and a good hire for us. He's going to at least keep us from looking pathetic on the coaching level (no more QB sneaks on 1st down). We will be better. That's much more than we really could hope for before this hire was made.
Who did you think we were going to be able to get??? We couldn't land Butch freakin' Davis (and HE wasn't a "Big Time Hire" by any real measurement that matters). Time to rein in our understanding of what sort of job CU was. It's about more than money. Choose unwisely, and a coach could collect a big payday and ruin his career (did you see where Hawkins was passed over for the TEXAS STATE job recently??? How much money, long-term, is that CU debacle going to cost HIM?).
Don't go looking gift horses in the mouth. We got a good coach...and are pretty damn lucky to have done so. Is he going to win a National Championship? Almost certainly not. But he's going to almost certainly improve CU. That's not a very enviable or sought after job right now for people who have already proven they could do that elsewhere (and please let's not forget how monumentally pathetic SJSU was. Dick Tomey went from the Pac-10 to there and got his soul crushed...saw NO improvement. What Mac2 did there is astounding).
I am definitely willing to give MacIntyre and his assistant coaches a chance before I starting thinking it is a waste of money. What I do know is that we are expecting some improvement in the product on the field for the money we are spending for coaches. If that means going from getting blown out to close losses this next year, but within the next 3 years we are going to have to see a bowl game IMO.
BlackNGold
Club Member
The $2.6 million pool was so CU could go out and recruit better assistants...that does not appear to be happening so that is disappointing.
What it takes to win at the WAC level is totally different than what it takes to win at the PAC12 level. You can recruit a class of 2 star recruits on a consistent basis and win because everyone else is recruiting 1 and 2 star players. Plus at SJSU they could get JCs to fill holes - 15 in the last 3 classes. The challenges are much different at CU.
What it takes to win at the WAC level is totally different than what it takes to win at the PAC12 level. You can recruit a class of 2 star recruits on a consistent basis and win because everyone else is recruiting 1 and 2 star players. Plus at SJSU they could get JCs to fill holes - 15 in the last 3 classes. The challenges are much different at CU.
BlackNGold
Club Member
Three years as a head coach in the WAC does not make you a proven coach( Hawkins coached for 4 years in the WAC). If CU is as bad of job as you say then why aren't more fans upset with the CUAD who has taken it from a great job to what it is today.
buffalocu81
New Member
I think MM understands that recruiting will improve when we get better in terms of W & L on the field. We have the players to get to 5-6 wins which will put us in a better position to recruit better players. The last staff had some good recruiters (EB, Kennedy, McGhee, & Tui) but was weak in game day decision making and player development. However, their recruiting results were average at best. Like it or not we need to show more on the field in order to attract better players.
What concerns me most, and at this point it can't be proven one way or another, is whether or not Mac has the balls to fire these guys if it comes to that. If we get La Russa and he's the ST coach and our ST is Riddler bad, does he fire him? I sure hope so, but I'm worried he won't. I'm not going to drone on and on about it because nobody knows the answer to it, but that's my main concern here.
Have you seen Mac2's entire resume? He had a history before SJSU you know...distinguished...major conferences...the NFL...all of it (including having a father for a former college HC. Ask the other legacy coaches and QBs...like the Sabans, Elways and Mannings how much this helps). Compare it to Dan Hawkins record. Where do you think the majority of good coaches at major programs come from? From less major programs. They are a better bet, odds-wise, than choosing assistants from major schools who've never held HC positions.
And are you really asking me why more people aren't upset with Bohn? Well, I am not in Boulder...so maybe I am missing all the love for him around the CU campus...but out here on the West Coast I don't meet anyone particularly enthused with the job Bohn has done (and if you are talking football specifically, I don't meet anyone who isn't mad as hell at him for the job he's done with that specific sport).
duaneallman8
Member
And with those one and two star players, he played Stanford to three, smoked Colorado St. and beat BYU among others. In other words, playing above talent level. I think some of the coaching staff criticism is founded but I wouldn't pigeonhole Baer, MacIntyre, Jeffcoat, Foreman and Bernardi as WAC coaches. Also, consider me a big fan of Jeffcoat, Clark and Bernardi.
All valid points. Potentially Mac knows that he doesn't have time to waste getting a new staff oriented and roles defined, he knows he doesn't have the luxury of wasting a year on a coach who he thought would be good but is a bad fit.
This program has enough issues without adding disfunction in the coaching staff. HCMM knows these people, knows how they work and how to work with them. In the end they may be up to the task or not up to the task but at least they will be able to come in and be off and running.
Each already has his recruiting area, each already has a HS coaching network. The last thing this program needs is another lost year while a bunch of new guys try to figure out what they are doing.
Any coaching hire has a degree of risk. Even some schools with huge resources and their pick of almost anyone they want have had bad coaching hires. We have also seen guys come from smaller programs or less recognition and be very successful. Same with assistants.
The hire is made. Let's give him at least a little bit of time to run his program and see if it's going to work before we freak out. I may be wrong but I'm not aware of anybody on this board collecting consulting fees from FBS programs because of their expertise (although nick and duff spend enough time that they might be worth a buck or two.)
Give the guy a shot, he hasn't had a spring yet and people are freaking out. Doesn't matter where he coached if he knows what to to. Paying a name guy a lot doesn't make him a good pickup. Maybe I'm full of crap but feel good about Mac.
Best I have read today. Great point...
At the end of the day, SJSU THIS year probably is a middle-of-the-pack PAC12 team. This is while recruiting in the WAC. It will take more than 1 year, but I think he can get CU to a respectable level with the talent that is in the program right now and then the recruits will follow.
Either they got lucky or they have a very good sense for:
1. Talent Evaluation
2. Talent Development
Both of these trump "recruiting prowess". With the two above skillsets, then recruiting will take care of itself.
Personal observation is that the Recruiting Superstars (i.e. Josh Tupoi and the sort) negate their awesome abilities as recruiters, by not following it up with great coaching.
Given the track record at SJSU, I'd take the entire package, as is. I'll rely on their abilities to identify and develop talent. I'll rely on a solid bump they will get recruiting the same areas, but as a PAC12 team, rather than a WAC team with no facilities, stature, history, or fan support. I'm really not sold on anyone coming in from the outside as being a "step up" over what SJSU was doing. More important is can HCMM get guys he knows, believes in and trusts in?
Either they got lucky or they have a very good sense for:
1. Talent Evaluation
2. Talent Development
Both of these trump "recruiting prowess". With the two above skillsets, then recruiting will take care of itself.
Personal observation is that the Recruiting Superstars (i.e. Josh Tupoi and the sort) negate their awesome abilities as recruiters, by not following it up with great coaching.
Given the track record at SJSU, I'd take the entire package, as is. I'll rely on their abilities to identify and develop talent. I'll rely on a solid bump they will get recruiting the same areas, but as a PAC12 team, rather than a WAC team with no facilities, stature, history, or fan support. I'm really not sold on anyone coming in from the outside as being a "step up" over what SJSU was doing. More important is can HCMM get guys he knows, believes in and trusts in?