CU has rejoined the Big 12 and broken college football - talking out asses continues

[PAC MAN]

And I look forward to kicking both their asses. That said, the Big 12 isn't the same league it was 10 years ago, but its still an opportunity for CU-if it wants to commit to football success. If they're more interested in being attached with what they believe to be their peers (let's not kid ourselves-CU's not on the same level academically as either Bay Area school), I'll for one find other things to do with my fall Saturdays.

I could have just stuck with OU due to family and being born in that state but I just had a blast with CU back in 1989-90. I have been a CU fan long enough to know what makes CU awesome even if I know that CU wouldn't be able to match OU resource-wise because the passion for CU was there at that time. That passion today is only a small campfire spark of what it once was. The passion of Venables and that SEC move is hard for me to ignore.

If CU passes up an opportunity to be good at football again, I'm done with CU for real too.

 

[BuffLuke80]

CU admin trying to sell itself to the B1G

You know damn well that took a lot of takes right there.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

You know damn well that took a lot of takes right there.

David Spade doing everything he can not to crack up is an underrated part of that scene

 

[White_Rabbit]

Not on revenue or prestige. Hard to be legit if you have no blue blood football programs. Same issue the Pac faces without USC. But things are definitely more pleasant without having to deal with a conference member that rightfully/infuriating acts like you're all riding its coattails.

Maybe more pleasant without UT, but also relegated to 2nd tier.

Honestly, I don't like any of the options right now. Kind of hoping the ACC gets poached and things get crazy. There's a chance good things could shake out of that.

I find UNC/UVA to be the most interesting there. Seems like both the B1G and SEC will want them. According to some former UNC President guy, the SEC was there for the taking back in the day, but they had just joined the ACC and wanted to make it work. They fit geographically in either one. While a lot of the conferences pay lip service to the academic side, B1G really seems to actually care, but they want decent football too.

Everyone might be waiting on ND and then seeing who would go to the B1G with them and who knows what is possible with the ACC GOR

 

[PAC MAN]

As an outsider let me ask you this. Is the B12 a more or less attractive conference to join with Texas leaving? I’ve been following since long before they were added and, while there are lots of valid reasons to join or not join I’m thinking Texas leaving (after destroying) is a good thing.

I'm a Big 8 guy and the Big 12 does look very attractive at this point. As you saw in 2016, CU can still play for conference championships and we are just kind of down after a bad coaching hire and the record of the last 20 years. I'd say the PAC is more competitive than what CU faced in the old Big 12 but I wouldn't doubt any suggestion that the Big 12 has became more competitive since the four schools left back in 2011-12.

I'm under no illusion that the Big 12 is going to be an easy out but CU can still contend for the Big 12 title if the team can figure out who it is and stay healthy. That is what happened in 2016. The problem was Mike MacIntyre losing all of those games with a bowl game on the line the next several seasons.

I miss CU fans reminding KU fans of that long road trip back home after a loss in Boulder. That was not something we could really do in the PAC.

Thanks for Tad Boyle though.

 

[SINKRATZ]

CU admin trying to sell itself to the B1G

That guy went on to sell a half a million brake pads thank you very much.

 

[Buffnik]

If the Big 12 is accepting status as a leftover, what exactly in your mind is tying yourself to UO/UW right now? Asking for an MWC invite in 10-15 years IMO.

SEC and B1G already own the Big 12 markets. Other than Los Angeles, Western markets are up for grabs to own a lot of significant media markets there is no way a sports broadcasting company is going to fail to capitalize upon.

6. San Francisco
11. Phoenix
12. Seattle
16. Denver
20. Sacramento
21. Portland
27. San Diego
30. Salt Lake City
40. Las Vegas

I don't think there's any way it all gets left out. Certainly not ASU, CU, Stanford, UO and UW.

And in the interim, I think the Pac has got to crunch some numbers on the value brought by SDSU, FSU, UNLV and BSU to expand footprint with markets or schools that could draw some more eyeballs & revenue out of the footprint. The ultimate goal here for CU is not stability, it's getting through to the next round. Denver market won't be left out, ultimately.

 

[Buffnik]

I find UNC/UVA to be the most interesting there. Seems like both the B1G and SEC will want them. According to some former UNC President guy, the SEC was there for the taking back in the day, but they had just joined the ACC and wanted to make it work. They fit geographically in either one. While a lot of the conferences pay lip service to the academic side, B1G really seems to actually care, but they want decent football too.

Everyone might be waiting on ND and then seeing who would go to the B1G with them and who knows what is possible with the ACC GOR

My guess is that UVA goes B1G and UNC goes SEC when it all shakes out. I think that we'll get a fairly clean North/South map.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

SEC and B1G already own the B1G markets. Other than Los Angeles, Western markets are up for grabs to own a lot of significant media markets there is no way a sports broadcasting company is going to fail to capitalize upon.

6. San Francisco
11. Phoenix
12. Seattle
16. Denver
20. Sacramento
21. Portland
27. San Diego
30. Salt Lake City
40. Las Vegas

I don't think there's any way it all gets left out. Certainly not ASU, CU, Stanford, UO and UW.

And in the interim, I think the Pac has got to crunch some numbers on the value brought by SDSU, FSU, UNLV and BSU to expand footprint with markets or schools that could draw some more eyeballs & revenue out of the footprint. The ultimate goal here for CU is not stability, it's getting through to the next round. Denver market won't be left out, ultimately.

If you’re telling me the concept is to stay in a Pac conference that adds 4 G5 programs, with the strategy of investing in its football program and becoming a legitimate top third member of the new conference in order to gain fan support and viewership for the next round of expansion, then I can buy that to an extent.

I guess I just feel like if CU invests in its football program while also being part of the Big12, the same results will be achieved and it will be done in front of more eyeballs in a conference that is viewed as more legitimate as a “power” conference

 

[Buffnik]

If you’re telling me the concept is to stay in a Pac conference that adds 4 G5 programs, with the strategy of investing in its football program and becoming a legitimate top third member of the new conference in order to gain fan support and viewership for the next round of expansion, then I can buy that to an extent.

I guess I just feel like if CU invests in its football program while also being part of the Big12, the same results will be achieved and it will be done in front of more eyeballs in a conference that is viewed as more legitimate as a “power” conference

I don't think the current Big 12 is seen by the B1G as peer type schools. But they do think that about the AAU members of the Pac plus there is like 100 years of B1G/Pac tradition. I think it's in our interest to stay close to that apple cart while we clean our own house.

 

[dio]

SEC and B1G already own the Big 12 markets. Other than Los Angeles, Western markets are up for grabs to own a lot of significant media markets there is no way a sports broadcasting company is going to fail to capitalize upon.

6. San Francisco
11. Phoenix
12. Seattle
16. Denver
20. Sacramento
21. Portland
27. San Diego
30. Salt Lake City
40. Las Vegas

I don't think there's any way it all gets left out. Certainly not ASU, CU, Stanford, UO and UW.

And in the interim, I think the Pac has got to crunch some numbers on the value brought by SDSU, FSU, UNLV and BSU to expand footprint with markets or schools that could draw some more eyeballs & revenue out of the footprint. The ultimate goal here for CU is not stability, it's getting through to the next round. Denver market won't be left out, ultimately.

This is where I'm at as well. Little desire to go back to whatever the Big12 has become. Pac10 has soooo much territory to lockup. Big12 members should be asking to join, not the other way around.

 

[FLounder]

We should just go independent. Instantly become #2 most valuable independent school. Psychologically we don’t tie our selves to any sinking ship.

 

[Buffnik]

What CU should be focused on is making itself as attractive as possible to the B1G.

That's mostly about winning football and Folsom improvements.

But I'd put everything on the table in a strategic plan to achieve that goal.

Academic plan looking for strategic partnerships with B1G members while focusing on improving the metrics they care about.

Athletic plan that improves or adds non-football sports they care about. If hockey could put us over the top vs other similar schools, find a way to make it happen. Or whatever moves the needle that little bit.

Marketing to increase exposure in B1G country, attract more students from their footprint and build Buff Club chapters in their backyard.

The future of the university is in the balance on this.

 

[Alfred91]

What CU should be focused on is making itself as attractive as possible to the B1G.

That's mostly about winning football and Folsom improvements.

But I'd put everything on the table in a strategic plan to achieve that goal.

Academic plan looking for strategic partnerships with B1G members while focusing on improving the metrics they care about.

Athletic plan that improves or adds non-football sports they care about. If hockey could put us over the top vs other similar schools, find a way to make it happen. Or whatever moves the needle that little bit.

Marketing to increase exposure in B1G country, attract more students from their footprint and build Buff Club chapters in their backyard.

The future of the university is in the balance on this.

On paper, I like this. In practice, I see no one in a position of leadership at this university, from the BoR on down, willing to make this bold of a move.

One of the things that has defined the entire CU system for decades now is an unwillingness to be bold.

 

[Not Sure]

The ultimate goal here for CU is not stability, it's getting through to the next round. Denver market won't be left out, ultimately.

Bingo. ”Stability” is a pipe dream. It doesn’t exist. Stop chasing a ghost.

 

[MtnBuff]

SEC and B1G already own the Big 12 markets. Other than Los Angeles, Western markets are up for grabs to own a lot of significant media markets there is no way a sports broadcasting company is going to fail to capitalize upon.

6. San Francisco
11. Phoenix
12. Seattle
16. Denver
20. Sacramento
21. Portland
27. San Diego
30. Salt Lake City
40. Las Vegas

I don't think there's any way it all gets left out. Certainly not ASU, CU, Stanford, UO and UW.

And in the interim, I think the Pac has got to crunch some numbers on the value brought by SDSU, FSU, UNLV and BSU to expand footprint with markets or schools that could draw some more eyeballs & revenue out of the footprint. The ultimate goal here for CU is not stability, it's getting through to the next round. Denver market won't be left out, ultimately.

The west has a lot of significant TV markets and while the deep south (Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana,) stagnates and the heart of B1G country in the mid-west declines those western cities are growing faster than even the growing cities in the rest of the country.

The problem with all this is that population doesn't matter if it isn't watching. In SEC/B1G country every TV is tuned to the college game. If people aren't at the stadium they are home watching college football. The passion gives them a strangle hold on the population.

In contrast in San Francisco, Denver, Portland and most of the other cities on your list how many people even know there is a game on much less who is playing? In a number of those cities the NFL owns the sports market. In some others like San Diego they just don't care, they would rather be on the beach or the ski slope or kicking a soccer ball around in the park.

I don't think the networks are all that worried about who they leave out. To the contrary it continues to look like college football is on the way towards being even more a regional sport than it is now.

 

[Buffnik]

On paper, I like this. In practice, I see no one in a position of leadership at this university, from the BoR on down, willing to make this bold of a move.

One of the things that has defined the entire CU system for decades now is an unwillingness to be bold.

And if it doesn't change, we know where this path leads. We've seen a state and home metro that has exploded in population, economic strength and infrastructure the past 20 years while the flagship university has declined.

 

[ahoelsken]

SEC and B1G already own the Big 12 markets. Other than Los Angeles, Western markets are up for grabs to own a lot of significant media markets there is no way a sports broadcasting company is going to fail to capitalize upon.

6. San Francisco
11. Phoenix
12. Seattle
16. Denver
20. Sacramento
21. Portland
27. San Diego
30. Salt Lake City
40. Las Vegas

I don't think there's any way it all gets left out. Certainly not ASU, CU, Stanford, UO and UW.

And in the interim, I think the Pac has got to crunch some numbers on the value brought by SDSU, FSU, UNLV and BSU to expand footprint with markets or schools that could draw some more eyeballs & revenue out of the footprint. The ultimate goal here for CU is not stability, it's getting through to the next round. Denver market won't be left out, ultimately.

You're right to an extent, but you're using 10 year old logic to get there. There's no way the Big 2 conferences decide to ignore 1/3 of the country. There's also no way that USC/UCLA wind up in the Big 10 by themselves before this round of realignment ends. Football's obviously what drives the bus, here. Let's not kid ourselves, though-the losers of the UCLA/USC moves are their athletes in non-revenue sports. My guess is that the Big 10 would be interested in Oregon and Washington if two things can happen. One, they've got to be able to leave their little brothers behind. WSU and OSU aren't terrilble programs, but in this conversation they're worthless. Two, they've got to be willing to take a lesser share of TV revenue to make that work.

I think you look at it kind of wrong with the market size angle-How much of a presence does a school still have nationally? I mean that's why the Big 10 jumped on the nubs 10 years ago. They're a brand nationally-as much as we like to mock them. If I'm Kevin Warren, I think I could make a case that I'm already in Denver because I have Nebraska (who the Denver media covers more obsessively than even CU). That line of thinking could make CU to the SEC more logical, but that's another discussion for another time.

The main assumption I'm making here is this conversation won't permanently end until at least we get to 2033-34 or so, as that's likely when the ACC starts to fall apart. For right now-I'm asking myself two questions. One, where do I think CU makes more money for right now? I think that's likely the Big 12, and I think that's the case because both ESPN (who I think is their primary) and FOX are both involved there, and I have not seen anything to make me believe that either will end their relationship with the Big 12 anytime soon. Two, where do I think CU has the better chance to have success in the interim in football? Big 12 again.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

And if it doesn't change, we know where this path leads. We've seen a state and home metro that has exploded in population, economic strength and infrastructure the past 20 years while the flagship university has declined.

I saw something the other day about North Carolina and how they mandate that 80% of their admittance are in state kids. Obviously that means there is more state money flowing into the University than what CU gets from Colorado, but I think that is a better way to get the state of Colorado and it’s residents behind the University. People who are born and raised here, their parents who might be from elsewhere but ultimately adopt the University and football program because of their kids. Getting rid of a lot of the wealthy CA and NY kids who come here to ski and party and ultimately leave the state never to really care for CU again would go a long way to help develop a population of people in CO who care about CU. Of course that would require increase taxes or at least a reallocation of taxes to CU

 

[Buffnik]

The west has a lot of significant TV markets and while the deep south (Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana,) stagnates and the heart of B1G country in the mid-west declines those western cities are growing faster than even the growing cities in the rest of the country.

The problem with all this is that population doesn't matter if it isn't watching. In SEC/B1G country every TV is tuned to the college game. If people aren't at the stadium they are home watching college football. The passion gives them a strangle hold on the population.

In contrast in San Francisco, Denver, Portland and most of the other cities on your list how many people even know there is a game on much less who is playing? In a number of those cities the NFL owns the sports market. In some others like San Diego they just don't care, they would rather be on the beach or the ski slope or kicking a soccer ball around in the park.

I don't think the networks are all that worried about who they leave out. To the contrary it continues to look like college football is on the way towards being even more a regional sport than it is now.

Yes and no. For example, WWE's weekly prime time event drew huge numbers but the buying power of the viewers was low so it didn't draw the ad dollars. The western metros are relatively very wealthy compared to other markets. That also matters.

Old truth of economics is that demographics is destiny. I'm betting on where population and wealth is migrating and my ability to figure out how to crack the code of successfully marketing to that audience vs tying my future to fully tapped markets with fewer resources.

 

[Buffnik]

I saw something the other day about North Carolina and how they mandate that 80% of their admittance are in state kids. Obviously that means there is more state money flowing into the University than what CU gets from Colorado, but I think that is a better way to get the state of Colorado and it’s residents behind the University. People who are born and raised here, their parents who might be from elsewhere but ultimately adopt the University and football program because of their kids. Getting rid of a lot of the wealthy CA and NY kids who come here to ski and party and ultimately leave the state never to really care for CU again would go a long way to help develop a population of people in CO who care about CU. Of course that would require increase taxes or at least a reallocation of taxes to CU

I think UT had a rule where any in-state kid who graduated top ten in his/her HS class (something like that) was automatically accepted. To your point, if I was the CU Prez I would pitch something like that to Polis (a Boulder guy & someone for whom education is on-brand) for increased state funding in return. Seems like something that could work.

 

[ahoelsken]

The west has a lot of significant TV markets and while the deep south (Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana,) stagnates and the heart of B1G country in the mid-west declines those western cities are growing faster than even the growing cities in the rest of the country.

The problem with all this is that population doesn't matter if it isn't watching. In SEC/B1G country every TV is tuned to the college game. If people aren't at the stadium they are home watching college football. The passion gives them a strangle hold on the population.

In contrast in San Francisco, Denver, Portland and most of the other cities on your list how many people even know there is a game on much less who is playing? In a number of those cities the NFL owns the sports market. In some others like San Diego they just don't care, they would rather be on the beach or the ski slope or kicking a soccer ball around in the park.

I don't think the networks are all that worried about who they leave out. To the contrary it continues to look like college football is on the way towards being even more a regional sport than it is now.

I used this example in my response to Nik, and I wanted to expand on it-I think the two questions with a school are what's your market size and how big of a brand do you have? One of the best examples of this is Nebraska, in all seriousness. People still watch them. They get better TV times than a program with a 5-6 year long bowl drought probably should. Here's why they're a great case study-If I'm the Big 10, I could make an argument that I have a presence in Denver metro because I already have the nubs, who (whether we like it or not) are still a brand with that kind of reach. Don't believe me? Look at how much attention Nebraska still gets in the Denver media.

That's where the SEC becomes a fascinating part of this-Are there fans/alums of those programs in Denver? Sure. Enough to fill up a bar for a watch party in most cases? Ehhhh......Texas and Oklahoma probably. A&M too. Not sure about the rest of them. In this case, that might be the easiest way to judge whether or not you're truly in a market. We know the Big 10 is here because of the Nubs. That's where CU may help the SEC. If I'm the SEC and I want to get a presence in a market like Denver (where I don't currently have one and FOX does b/c they have the Big 10) so I can make sure my product is all over in that city every Saturday, I invite CU.

With all that said, that's in no way happening anytime soon, and I will freely admit I'm likely wrong about it. Its an interesting way of looking at this conversation-which isn't ending until the ACC starts to crumble about a decade from now.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

I think UT had a rule where any in-state kid who graduated top ten in his/her HS class (something like that) was automatically accepted. To your point, if I was the CU Prez I would pitch something like that to Polis (a Boulder guy & someone for whom education is on-brand) for increased state funding in return. Seems like something that could work.

I have multiple friends from college from the east coast who moved back immediately following graduation and couldn’t care less about CU athletics now. Their money was appreciated by the University, but it’s an awful strategy for building a donor base, both for academics and athletics

 

[ahoelsken]

Not sure how that matters. They've been in the Top 25 enough for long enough that their football brand can draw an audience, their home market gives a needed bump of in-market cable homes, and the rest of the teams in the conference rely on SoCal for recruiting so a presence is needed.

It's a no-brainer for expansion if that's the path.

My big question is who to take for #12?

I think that outside of raiding the Big 12, if we look at the MWC it would be Fresno State, Boise State and UNLV in some order.

P.S. The move might be to take all 4 on a reduced share deal.

If a raid of the MWC makes sense, AIr Force is my 12th. They're a regional rival for CU who has a more recent history with Utah. They're a brand nationally. CBS is showing CU at Air Force at 1:30 mountain on 9/10 for a reason. I know its a bad week in the SEC TV wise-but you could put South Carolina at Arkansas there. I know its 9/11 weekend-but you could Memphis at Navy there. I think they're an easy sell for all 10 schools currently in the league to take, and they're the one outside of SDSU who is likeliest to help the Pac 10's new TV deal.

 

[MtnBuff]

If a raid of the MWC makes sense, AIr Force is my 12th. They're a regional rival for CU who has a more recent history with Utah. They're a brand nationally. CBS is showing CU at Air Force at 1:30 mountain on 9/10 for a reason. I know its a bad week in the SEC TV wise-but you could put South Carolina at Arkansas there. I know its 9/11 weekend-but you could Memphis at Navy there. I think they're an easy sell for all 10 schools currently in the league to take, and they're the one outside of SDSU who is likeliest to help the Pac 10's new TV deal.

Air Force has turned down prior interest in inviting them to a P5 conference.

They aren't interested in making the compromises needed to compete at a higher level.

 

[Alfred91]

@Buffnik and @The Alabaster Yak -

I've been following your discussion, but I didn't want to quote all those messages.

The problem is quite simply the Colorado constitution. It's a ****ing joke. We have TABOR, which mandates all kinds of screwy stuff, but mainly squeezes spending, then we have amendments that mandate a certain % of funding to k12 education, stuff that goes to community colleges, outdoors programs, and probably other stuff, but Jack **** to higher ed.

So Colorado higher ed institutions get a minuscule amount of $$$$ from the state, and that's not going to change anytime soon without a whole new state constitution. Therefore, we make up the money with out-of-state tuition. Been that way for years, and it's pretty much the same across the board for all 4 year institutions in this state.

 

[Hank]

Dude. It’s 2:00 AM in Paris and you’re on here telling US to get a life?

Rebecca was in bed. When to eat, when to go to bed has been an argument. It gets dark here around 10:30pm. Rebecca wants to eat at 7pm and go to bed at 11pm (she's in bed by 9pm in the US). I, on the other hand, would prefer to eat 9pm or 10pm, and go to bed at 2pm. And sleep in.

I'm not allowed to watch TV when she is sleeping, so the choice was Allbuffs or watch her sleep. As of now, it's 9:30am. I'm having a coffee while Rebecca is at the gym.

 

[CUAviator]

Best beer city in the US…not close

Not sure if serious.

 

[CUAviator]

Wait, what? 2 weeks ago we were winning a natty. What the **** happened?

 

[CUAviator]

I think UT had a rule where any in-state kid who graduated top ten in his/her HS class (something like that) was automatically accepted. To your point, if I was the CU Prez I would pitch something like that to Polis (a Boulder guy & someone for whom education is on-brand) for increased state funding in return. Seems like something that could work.

Overall UT system yes. But for UT Austin it’s top 7. But you don’t necessarily get the major you want.