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2019 NFL Draft Thread

tante

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The second quote is where I see the problem and where I see the biggest deficiency compared to Baker Mayfield in the same offense.

If you will remember last year when people were questioning Mayfield on this site I defended him and stated that I would pick him. My reasoning was that I saw a guy who made the reads and put the ball where the receiver was open even if the guy wasn't the primary or secondary target in the pattern. Mayfield used his mobility more often that not to buy time to make a read and a throw.

Murray is still ahead of a lot of college QBs in his decision making but watching him this season I saw a guy who was much more ready to rely on his physical talents. He would make first read, second read, then take off. At the college level, especially with a guy as gifted as a runner as Murray is this is a very effective strategy and that thread opened up a lot of easy passes for him as defenders didn't want to commit to full coverage. In the NFL that doesn't work nearly as well.

Murray might still develop into a quality NFL QB but I would put his odds well below those of Mayfield.
did you not see the post that TSchekler had? Mayfield and Murray came out of the same offense and Murray's stats are comparable in most areas and better than Mayfield's in others.
 

sliderNcider

Hasta la Viska
Club Member
thanks I kinda figured you took a binary stance on a QB where they are either great or a bust, with little to no middle ground.

I consider someone like Paxton Lynch as bust, I think Tannehill is average.
Tannehill was also like 7th overall. So where they are drafted is big too
 

TSchekler

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Not that Murray gives two hoots about my opinion, but he should go play baseball.
The finances are actually well in favor of him going to the NFL (he's going to be a top 5 pick), unless he really defies the odds in baseball and everything goes perfectly for him in getting the majors, becoming a super star and making it to Free Agency. Even then, he'll be 28 years old at the earliest when that happens.
 

Uncle Luko

Peckerwood
Club Member
You try to run around in the NFL, it's a bad idea. If it's a situational thing, when you have to make a play, fine. You're asking for trouble if you base an O off that.
 

MtnBuff

Not allowed in Barzil 2
Club Member
They are totally different players though.
You’re right; Murray is an elite runner.
And that elite runner is part of the problem. In college he can create big numbers by forcing the defense to defend his running. In the pros if he runs that much he won't last long enough to get to his second contract.

He is an amazing athlete. There shouldn't be any question about his arm strength and I don't think the height is really an issue either.

Again were the problem comes in is that his running ability has meant that he has never had to learn and develop an ability to go past the early stage reads. People argued that with Mayfield but I posted here that I saw Mayfield making those multiple reads in college, with Murray I see Read 1, Read 2, run.

We saw from Baker in Cleveland that ability when running a pro offense. This doesn't say Murray can't learn but I don't think he will, very few QBs learn that at the pro level

Somebody is going to draft him very early so we will get the chance to see. I'm just glad it isn't the Broncos taking that risk.

You try to run around in the NFL, it's a bad idea. If it's a situational thing, when you have to make a play, fine. You're asking for trouble if you base an O off that.
We heard plenty about how RG3 was going to revolutionize the game. Sometime that ability to run is a negative
 

Uncle Luko

Peckerwood
Club Member
In the NFL, it is. He's 207 or whatever, it'll get him beat up quickly if they try a college offense, rules aside.
 

BuffG

Well-Known Member
Agree completely. I think Foles is a complete creation of Doug Pederson and the offense he completely designed around Foles for that playoff run. We’ll see
27 TDs-2 picks in 2013 with Chip Kelly. Tied the single game record for passing TDs (7) that year. Pro Bowl MVP 2013. Followed that up in 2014 with Chip going 6-2 until he got injured. The only sustained success Chip had in the NFL was with Foles. If you throw out that BS Jeff Fisher season and his rookie year when Andy Reid lost the team before inserting Foles, he is 27-8 with 3 playoff appearances (4-2 W-L) in the last 6 seasons. The Eagles were not on track to make the playoffs last year when Wentz got hurt. Foles made it happen.

Meanwhile, the Ravens were not making the playoffs at 4-5 with Flacco before deciding to bench him for a rookie Lamar Jackson who went 6-1 and got them a Wild Card. Flacco hasn’t been to the playoffs since 2014. There were tons of memes about Flacco’s bad attitude about being benched while Foles handled it with class even though he was the reigning Super Bowl MVP.
 

Jens1893

Moderator
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Junta Member
27 TDs-2 picks in 2013 with Chip Kelly. Tied the single game record for passing TDs (7) that year. Pro Bowl MVP 2013. Followed that up in 2014 with Chip going 6-2 until he got injured. The only sustained success Chip had in the NFL was with Foles. If you throw out that BS Jeff Fisher season and his rookie year when Andy Reid lost the team before inserting Foles, he is 27-8 with 3 playoff appearances (4-2 W-L) in the last 6 seasons. The Eagles were not on track to make the playoffs last year when Wentz got hurt. Foles made it happen.

Meanwhile, the Ravens were not making the playoffs at 4-5 with Flacco before deciding to bench him for a rookie Lamar Jackson who went 6-1 and got them a Wild Card. Flacco hasn’t been to the playoffs since 2014. There were tons of memes about Flacco’s bad attitude about being benched while Foles handled it with class even though he was the reigning Super Bowl MVP.
:LOL:

If Foles is so great and has been all along, why could he only get backup jobs in 2016 and 2017? Why did Chip Kelly give up on him to get Sam ****ing Bradford? And why throw out his worst seasons but not his best? If you do that, you have a guy with 41 career TDs and 31 INTs.

Foles is Case Keenum. Limited sample size and he's been successful only with one franchise and mediocre everywhere else. W/L records for QBs are as irrelevant as they're for pitchers because it's still a team game.

Flacco sucks ass.
 

4BienemyTDs

Club Member
Club Member
Lot of NFL Network Radio chatter about Murray looking to be going to Arizona at #1 potentially and Rosen is acting like he will be traded. KK wants his guy to run his offense. Good luck, both men will be judged together and a messy divorce in years 2 or 3 is likely. I never liked Rosen either.
 

TSchekler

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Lot of NFL Network Radio chatter about Murray looking to be going to Arizona at #1 potentially and Rosen is acting like he will be traded. KK wants his guy to run his offense. Good luck, both men will be judged together and a messy divorce in years 2 or 3 is likely. I never liked Rosen either.
You gotta risk it to get the biscuit. I’d be so pumped if I was a Cards fan and they made a bold move like that
 

onealcd

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You gotta risk it to get the biscuit. I’d be so pumped if I was a Cards fan and they made a bold move like that
I mean, I would be excited about the possibilities but also scared ****less about going with a QB that size and a head coach like KK. And speaking of offensive line issues, the Cardinals, my god.
 

JMBuffs

Well-Known Member
Could Broncos future C be working out at the combine right now? I like Garrett Bradbury, Remington winner, solid Senior Bowl, and now an impressive combine.

 

TSchekler

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I mean, I would be excited about the possibilities but also scared ****less about going with a QB that size and a head coach like KK. And speaking of offensive line issues, the Cardinals, my god.
Sure, high risk high reward. As long as you have a plan, I’m good with it. If it doesn’t work out, they’ll fire KK and move on from Murray and try again. At least they won’t be sitting at 7-9 wins year in year by playing it safe w mediocrity.
 

Duff Man

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Junta Member
Some players I like:

Greg Little (OT)- Ole Miss
Deebo Samuel (WR) - South Carolina
Germaine Pratt (ILB) - NC State
Zach Allen (DE) - Boston College
 

onealcd

Club Member
Club Member
Some players I like:

Greg Little (OT)- Ole Miss
Deebo Samuel (WR) - South Carolina
Germaine Pratt (ILB) - NC State
Zach Allen (DE) - Boston College
Justice Hill, Marquise Brown, N'Keal Harry, Kaden Smith, Isaiah Prince, Nate Herbig, David Long, Andrew Wingard and Port Gustin all seem like they will have a lot of value in those mid rounds.
 

JMBuffs

Well-Known Member
...in my opinion(does that need to be noted?)

Ford OU
Dillard WSU
Taylor Fla
Williams Bama
Risner KSU

are 1st round talent tackles, in that order. In my opinion
 

TSchekler

Club Member
Club Member
Could Broncos future C be working out at the combine right now? I like Garrett Bradbury, Remington winner, solid Senior Bowl, and now an impressive combine.

If there's the one thing I would look for when drafting OL, it's 40 time!
 

onealcd

Club Member
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Risner only got 23 reps yesterday on the bench press right? Concerning for a lineman. That is a pass/fail test at 25 or more reps according to Orlando Franklin and the scouting community.
 

Denver_sc

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Club Member
I thought it would be hilarious to go back and look for some hot takes in previous years, but I really couldn't find much without sifting through a bunch of garbage.

@Darth Snow 's weird obsession with Ryan Mallet (!) and how he was going to be pretty much the same or right behind Luck as an NFL QB is pretty funny though:

look at stats, come back to me on the interception #s.

Edit: Here is just some food for thought.

http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2010&rpt=IA_playerpasseff&site=org&div=IA&dest=O

Passing efficiency: Mallet #3, Luck #7. Granted, Mallet has 11 INT's to Luck's 5, but he averages over a yard more per attempt and was the backbone of his team for most of the year especially early. Mallet also had 30 TDS on less games than Luck. Not like he's an interception machine.

Oh ya, and Mallet played in a much tougher conference, including the toughest division in college football this year. And he got 600 more yards despite being knocked out of 2 games, including against Auburn, which arky's backup QB tore up as well.


In sum: your assertion is grossly misstating the facts. Mallet may sound like an idot (He does, most definitely) but he has a fine football brain.
 
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