Colorado & Utah To The Pac10 ? hmm ?

[jpbuff]

I love the idea of moving.One question. Where would the conference championship be? Would it be in a better location than Kansas City in December or in the dome in Dallas. I would assume either in Southern California or Arizona.

 

[Darian3Hagan]

I love the idea of moving.One question. Where would the conference championship be? Would it be in a better location than Kansas City in December or in the dome in Dallas. I would assume either in Southern California or Arizona.

Im sure it would be the Rose Bowl.

 

[Junction]

I agree. A conference move shouldn't look at that as a factor. The fact is, CU would be on an island in the Pac. The Buffs might be a remote outpost now, but it would be worse in the Pac.

Driving mileage from Boulder, Colo., to Big 12 campuses
Nebraska: 501 miles
Kansas St.: 515
Texas Tech: 584
Kansas: 587
Okla. St.: 665
Oklahoma: 716
Iowa St.: 720
Mizzou: 748
Baylor: 887
Texas: 976
A&M: 984

Driving mileage from Boulder, Colo., to Pac 10 (12) campuses
Utah (rumored): 522
Arizona: 922
Ariz. St.: 948
USC: 1,042
UCLA: 1,051
Wazzu: 1,167
Cal: 1,260
Stanford: 1,300
Washington: 1,332
Oregon St.: 1,337
Oregon: 1,337

:wtf:

How can it be a longer drive from Boulder to Tempe than Boulder to Tucson, which is pretty much due south of Tempe? Oregon and OSU are exactly the same distance, and both are farther away than UW, which is all the way on the pacific coast and farther away from Boulder on a north/south basis? It's a shorter drive to USC and UCLA (again, about as far west as you can go, and a big drop to the south) than either Oregon school??

Something seems very strange with those numbers... :huh:

Colin Cowherd was talking about Pac 10 expansion on his show this morning (don't like the guy personally), and he seemed to think Utah was a no brainer and he begrudgingly thought BYU would be the other although he ackowledged there are issues with BYU (academic, no playing on Sunday which is more of an issue for hoops).

His explanation for why CU would be a bad choice...it's a hippie school and the Pac 10 already has plenty of hippie schools. I actually think that works in our favor culture-wise, but either way that guy is a clown.

Colin Cowturd is a ridiculous moron. The man prides himself on his lack of knowledge of actual sports....

 

[Deleted member 807]

Skiddy's chart of mileage from a major airport to the stadium.

Mizzou. STL (St Louis) to Faurot. 113mi.
Oregon. PDX (Portland) to Autzen. 109mi.
KState. MCI (Kansas City) to Snyder Family. 100mi.
Baylor. DFW (Dallas) to Floyd Casey. 95mi.
Wazzou. GEG (Spokane) to Martin. 80mi.
Oregon State. PDX (Portland) to Reser. 79mi.
A&M. IAH (Houston Bush) to Kyle. 74mi.
Okie Lite. TUL (Tulsa) to Boone. 71mi.
Neb. OMA (Omaha) to Memorial. 54mi.
ISU. DSM (Des Moines) to Trice. 42mi.
KU. MCI (Kansas City) to Memorial. 37mi.
CU. DEN (Denver) to Folsom. 33mi.
Okla. OKC (Okla City) to Gaylord Family. 23mi.
UWash. SEA (Seattle) to Husky. 14mi.
Stanford. SJC (San Jose) to Stanford. 14mi.
Cal. OAK (Oakland) to Memorial. 11mi.
UCLA. BUR (Burbank) to Rose Bowl. 11mi.
USC. LAX (Los Angeles) to Coliseum. 9mi.
UA. TUS (Tucson) to Arizona Stadium. 8mi.
TTU. LBB (Lubbock) to Jones AT&T. 7mi.
UT. AUS (Austin) to DRK-UTM. 7mi.
ASU. PHX (Phoenix) to Sundevil. 6mi.

PAC 10 avg. 34mi. 3 trips of >60 mi.
B12 avg. 54mi. 5 trips >60 mi.
The longest trip is less than a Boulder to Beaver Creek ski run.

When you factor in traffic gridlock in Sea, LA, the Bay and Phoenix, the commute times between airport and hotel location and/or stadium, things balance out.

Conclusion. Accessing B12 locations isn't that much of a difference by air than Pac locations. The shorter flights compensate for slightly longer drive times. There are travel snobs in Colo and alumni is CA who are missing out some fun trips in the B12.

 

[Daaah]

Sumpin to consider:

I'll probably go to the Cal game this year. I probably won't go to any of the B12 road games.

Take it for what it's worth.

I've got ~10 friends of mine planning on coming out to the cal game from all over the place Denver/Boulder, LA, San Diego, Bay Area, and Seattle. I've never been able to get any of them to go to an away game before and it's been tough getting the out of staters to plan a trip back to Boulder around a football game. I think the Cal game turnout is going to be massive.

 

[prime teets]

:wtf:

How can it be a longer drive from Boulder to Tempe than Boulder to Tucson, which is pretty much due south of Tempe? Oregon and OSU are exactly the same distance, and both are farther away than UW, which is all the way on the pacific coast and farther away from Boulder on a north/south basis? It's a shorter drive to USC and UCLA (again, about as far west as you can go, and a big drop to the south) than either Oregon school??

Something seems very strange with those numbers... :huh:

take a look at a map and get back to me. reno nevada is farther west than L.A.

 

[Liver]

I've got ~10 friends of mine planning on coming out to the cal game from all over the place Denver/Boulder, LA, San Diego, Bay Area, and Seattle. I've never been able to get any of them to go to an away game before and it's been tough getting the out of staters to plan a trip back to Boulder around a football game. I think the Cal game turnout is going to be massive.

when CU played ucla at the rose bowl a few years back there were EASILY 10k CU fans there, maybe more. at the end of the game, there were thousands that stayed and sang the fight song with the team--- all the bruin fans were commenting on how many of us there were there.

when CU played usc in LA a few years back, there were well north of 5k fans and maybe closer to 10k. i was there with some big time usc folks and they were practically begging for CU to come to the p10... these were people who are influential and dialed-in with usc sports.

when CU played tenn. in the pre-season game at anaheim there were tens of thousands of CU fans in attendance. more than half the crowd for sure.

i could go on like this. you say whatever you want about the travel distances and, yes, there are issues, but CU has a huge alumni presence up and down the coast.

i'll be at the cal game this next season and i can pretty much guarantee you that we'll have thousands of fans there.

all of these turnouts are far, far better than you'll see if you take a roadie to ames, waco, or the little apple. that is a fact.

there are some significant hurdles to a move, but in the long run, i believe it would be great for CU.

 

[Deleted member 807]

when CU played ucla at the rose bowl a few years back there were EASILY 10k CU fans there, maybe more. at the end of the game, there were thousands that stayed and sang the fight song with the team--- all the bruin fans were commenting on how many of us there were there.

when CU played usc in LA a few years back, there were well north of 5k fans and maybe closer to 10k. i was there with some big time usc folks and they were practically begging for CU to come to the p10... these were people who are influential and dialed-in with usc sports.

when CU played tenn. in the pre-season game at anaheim there were tens of thousands of CU fans in attendance. more than half the crowd for sure.

i could go on like this. you say whatever you want about the travel distances and, yes, there are issues, but CU has a huge alumni presence up and down the coast.

i'll be at the cal game this next season and i can pretty much guarantee you that we'll have thousands of fans there.

all of these turnouts are far, far better than you'll see if you take a roadie to ames, waco, or the little apple. that is a fact.

there are some significant hurdles to a move, but in the long run, i believe it would be great for CU.

It was sad to see fewer than 200 CU fans in attendence in Stillwater a few months back against a nationally ranked team in a brand spanking new stadium with national ESPN coverage.

 

[SINKRATZ]

Skiddy, nice research. Also you have to take into consideration the town you're in when you finally arrive - the Pac 10 destinations are more likely to make the travel worth the trip. And depending on where you're coming from, it's going to be a hell of a lot easier finding direct flights in LA, Oakland, Portland, or Phoenix than Tulsa, Omaha, Des Moines, or Lubbock.

 

[The Guest]

It was sad to see fewer than 200 CU fans in attendence in Stillwater a few months back against a nationally ranked team in a brand spanking new stadium with national ESPN coverage.

Thursday games are tough on travel, I'd imagine.

I'm inclined to agree with Liver. I'll travel to Pac 10 destinations. The Big VIII was awesome from the aspect of tradition (locations of the school's still sucked, but the football was awesome). But its follow on, the XII, boasts few desirable destinations. Okay, 2 of them, and one of them is where we play home games.

 

[Liver]

It was sad to see fewer than 200 CU fans in attendence in Stillwater a few months back against a nationally ranked team in a brand spanking new stadium with national ESPN coverage.

unfortunately, over the years of following the Buffs, i can tell you that turnouts in the low hundreds for in-conference games are something i have seen more than i care to admit.

it is true that there may be some dropoff after the glamor wears off, but i think the venues most affected would be the ones that all the other p10 schools have trouble getting road fans to visit--- oregon state and wsu.

socal, nocal, seattle, and arizona are going to draw fans on trips and there are also a lot of Buffs already living in these places.

i think this move will be very difficult to pull off for all the reasons i set out in another post, but i would so love to see it happen. i am trying hard not to get my hopes up again. i thought it was a done-deal in the 90s.

 

[Scotch]

This was posted over on Rivals, but here's a good read on PAC 10 expansion:

http://www.addictedtoquack.com/2010/2/10/1304100/eastward-ho-pac-10-expansion-will

So, seeing as its all about TV markets, and using that to leverage everything we can from a new media deal, lets take a look at the markets that the Pac-10 already delivers (US market rank in parenthesis):

Los Angeles (2), San Francisco Bay Area (6), Phoenix (12), Seattle (14), Sacramento (20), Portland (22), San Diego (28). We also have Tucson in there at number 68.

This makes seven top 30 markets located within the Pac-10 footprint, a very impressive number. Obviously, adding two large markets to the footprint would have the potential to be a big money maker, as adding that many eyeballs to a TV deal/potential Pac-10 network makes nine large markets for advertisers.

Of the four top-50 markets that would be available to expand into, one thing stands out: Denver is the gold mine. The addition of Denver would give the conference eight top-30 markets. Denver itself adds almost three million viewers, the state of Colorado as a whole almost five million. Salt Lake City then becomes the next most attractive market at number 33. This is why you hear about Colorado and Utah as the schools that the Pac-10 is targeting. This would give the Pac-10 ten of the top 33 TV markets, and all schools except Stanford would be large, academically sound state schools with large enrollments and huge alumni numbers.

 

[Deleted member 807]

Skiddy, nice research. Also you have to take into consideration the town you're in when you finally arrive - the Pac 10 destinations are more likely to make the travel worth the trip. And depending on where you're coming from, it's going to be a hell of a lot easier finding direct flights in LA, Oakland, Portland, or Phoenix than Tulsa, Omaha, Des Moines, or Lubbock.

Southwest Airlines makes hitting a number of cities really easy. I was shocked by how much fun there was to be had in Lubbock. If you haven't hiked or biked nearby Palo Duro Canyon, then check it out. I guarantee the fans in Lubbuck are more hospitable than what you'll find in any big city in the Pac 10. Those tortilla slingers were stuffing beers in my fists and spinning long yarns about how much fun they had on their last vacation to the Rockies. I'd be willing to bet Avatars with tante that he's never tailgated in Lubbock. Besides, it was great to sit and chat with Hugh Charles's mom, Misti Hawkins, the Polumbus parents, Tarrence Wheatly's mom, who was extatic about what happened that day. The inside access to the program was way more memorable and cool than what I'm expecting in Berkeley next fall. Sometimes the big fan numbers work against the experience. Take that for what it's worth.

 

[Darian3Hagan]

What is the buyout amount for the Big 12 again?

 

[CarolinaBuff]

:wtf:

How can it be a longer drive from Boulder to Tempe than Boulder to Tucson, which is pretty much due south of Tempe? Oregon and OSU are exactly the same distance, and both are farther away than UW, which is all the way on the pacific coast and farther away from Boulder on a north/south basis? It's a shorter drive to USC and UCLA (again, about as far west as you can go, and a big drop to the south) than either Oregon school??

Something seems very strange with those numbers... :huh:

I had the same question about the AZ schools so I looked up the distances to Tempe and Tucson, and it's actually 847 to Tempe and 922 to Tucson. So yes, those numbers are wrong. :smile2:

 

[Darian3Hagan]

This was posted over on Rivals, but here's a good read on PAC 10 expansion:

http://www.addictedtoquack.com/2010/2/10/1304100/eastward-ho-pac-10-expansion-will

Wow who would have thought CU actually have leverage in this deal?

 

[Liver]

@skid...

dude, i get the personal fan experience was cool because you were one of a handful of Buffs not related to coaches or players in attendance... but, being one of a couple dozen CU fans at a conference game doesn't help the program, ya know?

i'd love a move to the p10. i really would. getting away from the ut juggernaut and the arrogance of the entire state of texas when they carpet-bagged our conference... getting away from kjuco state's dreadfully inadequate academics... getting away from roadies to waco, ames, manhattan, etc. ...

the only thing i'd miss is the fusker rivalry in football. it is a good one and worth saving, but i doubt they'd agree to an annual ooc tilt (ala usc v. notre dame).

 

[azbuff]

Tucson is closer than Phoenix, driving anyway, because Tucson is Southeast of Phoenix and you take a different route to get there.

I don't know, this idea is super appealing to me right now, but I wonder how I'll feel in five or ten years after I've seen CU play U$C, UCLA, UA and Oregon a few times. Novelty might wear off.

 

[Scotch]

Wow who would have thought CU actually have leverage in this deal?

Would probably have to use that leverage to solicit funds to help buy out of the Big 12.

 

[The Guest]

@skid...

dude, i get the personal fan experience was cool because you were one of a handful of Buffs not related to coaches or players in attendance... but, being one of a couple dozen CU fans at a conference game doesn't help the program, ya know?

i'd love a move to the p10. i really would. getting away from the ut juggernaut and the arrogance of the entire state of texas when they carpet-bagged our conference... getting away from kjuco state's dreadfully inadequate academics... getting away from roadies to waco, ames, manhattan, etc. ...

the only thing i'd miss is the fusker rivalry in football. it is a good one and worth saving, but i doubt they'd agree to an annual ooc tilt (ala usc v. notre dame).

Is it still considered "carpetbagging" when they're so much further south than the rest of the conference?

 

[Liver]

Is it still considered "carpetbagging" when they're so much further south than the rest of the conference?

i see my ironic turn of a phrase is lost on the likes of you.

fine. be that way. :rofl:

as for the buyout, it would have to get fronted by the money from the new tv contract i would expect. gah. i told myself not to get my hopes up on this again. burned waaaay too many times...

 

[Darian3Hagan]

Would probably have to use that leverage to solicit funds to help buy out of the Big 12.

Reading that article it really doesnt seem beneficial for the Pac 10 to expand without the Denver market so they better be ready to come up with a pile of cash for the buyout as well as bettering our current deal.

 

[Deleted member 807]

Thursday games are tough on travel, I'd imagine.

I'm inclined to agree with Liver. I'll travel to Pac 10 destinations. The Big VIII was awesome from the aspect of tradition (locations of the school's still sucked, but the football was awesome). But its follow on, the XII, boasts few desirable destinations. Okay, 2 of them, and one of them is where we play home games.

I don't get the travel snobbery. To much emphasis is put on "geography". Football is football. Tailgaiting with buff fans is all good no matter what the setting might be. Hotel rooms and restaurants in Lawrence look a lot like hotels in the Pac10 cities. When you are drinking beers and grilling burgers and having a good time, does the topography make all that much difference? When you are in the stadium cheering on the Buffs, it's great from Manhattan to Morgantown.

Speaking of which, the West Virginia game was on a Thursday night and I'm guessing that over 1,500 Buffs fans managed the mid week trip. It's just a question of priorities. Are you going for the football, or is the extracurricular trip to the amusement park what is really important here?

 

[SINKRATZ]

Reading that article it really doesnt seem beneficial for the Pac 10 to expand without the Denver market so they better be ready to come up with a pile of cash for the buyout as well as bettering our current deal.

Yep. A new TV deal has to be part of any realignment. The added revenue for the Pac 10 and it's TV partners by adding two major TV markets and getting a CCG will make this a lucrative deal if it comes to fruition - enough to pay a Big 12 buyout perhaps?

 

[Darian3Hagan]

I don't get the travel snobbery. To much emphasis is put on "geography". Football is football. Tailgaiting with buff fans is all good no matter what the setting might be. Hotel rooms and restaurants in Lawrence look a lot like hotels in the Pac10 cities. When you are drinking beers and grilling burgers and having a good time, does the topography make all that much difference? When you are in the stadium cheering on the Buffs, it's great from Manhattan to Morgantown.

Speaking of which, the West Virginia game was on a Thursday night and I'm guessing that over 1,500 Buffs fans managed the mid week trip. It's just a question of priorities. Are you going for the football, or is the extracurricular trip to the amusement park what is really important here?

The night before and night after the game is just as important to our crew. Lawrence was ok but not great.

 

[Scotch]

I don't get the travel snobbery. To much emphasis is put on "geography". Football is football. Tailgaiting with buff fans is all good no matter what the setting might be. Hotel rooms and restaurants in Lawrence look a lot like hotels in the Pac10 cities. When you are drinking beers and grilling burgers and having a good time, does the topography make all that much difference? When you are in the stadium cheering on the Buffs, it's great from Manhattan to Morgantown.

Speaking of which, the West Virginia game was on a Thursday night and I'm guessing that over 1,500 Buffs fans managed the mid week trip. It's just a question of priorities. Are you going for the football, or is the extracurricular trip to the amusement park what is really important here?

Honestly I'd go anywhere to see CU play, and have(I've traveled to stinkoln after all :smile2, but most of our fan base isn't like you and me. Having said that a good traveling fan base is way down on the list of reasons to move conferences.

 

[Liver]

@skid...

it isn't snobbery per se... part of it is instant accessibility to an installed base of fans... part of it is the cost of travel, too--- the p10 is served by major airlines (except for wsu and osu and arguably u of a) and there are tons of travel options. part of it is that YOU are a hardcore fan, just there for the football... most folks aren't like that... they want MORE than just the game.

we'd do better, attendance-wise. i know this with moral certainty. we'd do better academically. i know this with moral certainty. we'd do better culturally. i know this with moral certainty. that just leaves our ability to be competitive in enough sports (not a certainty), plus the big one: the money issues.

 

[chipwich]

when CU played ucla at the rose bowl a few years back there were EASILY 10k CU fans there, maybe more. at the end of the game, there were thousands that stayed and sang the fight song with the team--- all the bruin fans were commenting on how many of us there were there.

That was an amazing experience. We stayed around for a good hour after that game. It was shocking to see how many Buff fans were there. It was like a bowl game.

 

[Liver]

and i think we'd recruit better too. but, that's just a guess.

 

[Darian3Hagan]

I see a land grab of sorts for tv markets so I say get while the gettin is good.