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Dec 18-19 Conference Championships and other games

Well, stupid me. I bet $100 that USC, the best[? -- at least the only undefeated (because we weren't allowed to play them! )] team in the south would defeat the second(?) best team of the north
 
ahoelsken said:
Sure it can. See Iowa State this year as an example. Watching them against Oklahoma in particular-I don't think they're as good as OU is.
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See the second part of my statement
great talent also doesn't overcome bad coaching.
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It is very easy to look at the level of recruits they have brought in and the number of them who end up on NFL rosters and say that Oklahoma's defense has been poorly coached,

Strangely enough though we haven't been seeing Iowa State in NY6 bowls like Oklahoma has been virtually every recent year.

And don't underestimate the talent on Iowa State. No they aren't close to the top 10 but they have been consistently in the 40s and recruiting guys that other P5 schools want.

There will always be individual games with upsets, there are even seasons where a program will jump up and win more games than they were expected to.

Bottom line though is that if a program is going to win consistently they have to recruit talent that is at least comparable to the teams they expect to beat. Doesn't mean they won't occasionally pull an upset but at the end of the year who ends up on top and who ends up near the bottom.

Now again, coaching can bring down talent. USC is a good example of that, you could also point to Texas and some others who never seem to perform up to their talent levels.

Point is though that while you might win some individual upset games, Hawkins team came one play away from beating Georgia at Georgia in 2006 and followed up by beating #3 Oklahoma in 2007 both of those teams still ended up as bad teams with a lot of losses losing to a bunch of teams with more talent.
 
oregon outmuscled usc on the lines. the usc ol was especially abused. soft. where did all those big fast guys come from? a lot of them came from the elite feeder schools in socal. there is a lesson in this.

CU got jobbed, bigly. but we need to recruit if we want to see championships.
 
Hank said:
We lost to Uthaka. And that was it. The rest is sour grapes.
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If we had beaten Utah, wouldn’t the grapes have just been more sour? USC would have still played Oregon, right? Then we’d be the only unbeaten in a league with a 4-2 PAC12 “winner.”
 
MtnBuff said:
See the second part of my statement

It is very easy to look at the level of recruits they have brought in and the number of them who end up on NFL rosters and say that Oklahoma's defense has been poorly coached,

Strangely enough though we haven't been seeing Iowa State in NY6 bowls like Oklahoma has been virtually every recent year.

And don't underestimate the talent on Iowa State. No they aren't close to the top 10 but they have been consistently in the 40s and recruiting guys that other P5 schools want.

There will always be individual games with upsets, there are even seasons where a program will jump up and win more games than they were expected to.

Bottom line though is that if a program is going to win consistently they have to recruit talent that is at least comparable to the teams they expect to beat. Doesn't mean they won't occasionally pull an upset but at the end of the year who ends up on top and who ends up near the bottom.

Now again, coaching can bring down talent. USC is a good example of that, you could also point to Texas and some others who never seem to perform up to their talent levels.

Point is though that while you might win some individual upset games, Hawkins team came one play away from beating Georgia at Georgia in 2006 and followed up by beating #3 Oklahoma in 2007 both of those teams still ended up as bad teams with a lot of losses losing to a bunch of teams with more talent.
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Does Iowa State recruit at the level that is comparable to the teams they expect to beat though?

Iowa State's last four recruiting classes-
2017-7th in the Big 12, 52nd in the country
2018-7th in the Big 12, 55th overall
2019-6th in the Big 12, 46th overall
2020-6th in the Big 12, 46th overall

The one thing they do is recruit guys who they're confident fit what they want to do on both sides of the ball and the culture Campbell has built there.
 
GawainBuff said:
If we had beaten Utah, wouldn’t the grapes have just been more sour? USC would have still played Oregon, right? Then we’d be the only unbeaten in a league with a 4-2 PAC12 “winner.”
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I haven’t followed it that closely, so maybe it was going to be North vs South no matter what, but you’d think there would have been more pressure on the conference to have CU and USC play if both were undefeated.
 
Hank said:
I haven’t followed it that closely, so maybe it was going to be North vs South no matter what, but you’d think there would have been more pressure on the conference to have CU and USC play if both were undefeated.
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I believe PAC12 commish had made it pretty clear. Only North v South.
 
Liver said:
oregon outmuscled usc on the lines. the usc ol was especially abused. soft. where did all those big fast guys come from? a lot of them came from the elite feeder schools in socal. there is a lesson in this.

CU got jobbed, bigly. but we need to recruit if we want to see championships.
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Nah 60th ranked recruiting class is just fine.
 
USC's scheme on offense is a complete farce with the talent they have. It would be filthy with an offense like CU's where you can utilize play action with superstar WR's. Their oline is mitigated because of the air raid. The fact Helton is ok with this tells you how really bad he is as a HC.
 
ahoelsken said:
Does Iowa State recruit at the level that is comparable to the teams they expect to beat though?

Iowa State's last four recruiting classes-
2017-7th in the Big 12, 52nd in the country
2018-7th in the Big 12, 55th overall
2019-6th in the Big 12, 46th overall
2020-6th in the Big 12, 46th overall

The one thing they do is recruit guys who they're confident fit what they want to do on both sides of the ball and the culture Campbell has built there.
Click to expand...
They don't recruit at the level of Oklahoma, Texas, Oklahoma State. They sometimes upset those schools but lose more than they win.

They recruit better than most of the rest of the B12 and consistently beat those schools.

No question that coaching has moved them up the standings compared to their recruiting but also no question that they are still second tier in that conference. They keep ending up finishing behind teams in the standings that aren't as well coached but that have better talent.

Could they jump up one year and win the conference? Yes, they recruit well enough and coach well enough that they could beat the teams they should, pull a couple upsets, and end up on top one year. That would though be their shining season as they then slide back down towards the middle again.

There are teams who consistently outperform their recruiting rankings. Iowa and Wisconsin are examples. You have to recognize though that they aren't outperforming them by huge margins, they still have talent.

At the same time we see some teams that are very poorly coached and always lose some games they shouldn't based on talent but in the end they still end up winning a lot of games. Classic example is USC. You could probably include Georgia in that group as well.
 
They definitely came to play ... apparently. Of course I'm reduced to "watching" the game on ESPN gamecast because of Fox31's hissy fit in their negotiations with Dish. They have to realize they're losing a whole lot of advertising bucks by now.It's been going on for almost two months.
 
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