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Dec 18-19 Conference Championships and other games

Looks like the Clones are going to have to beat the Land Thieves ... and the refs. And this Matt Austin guy is a moron. That shove was clearly out of bounds by at least two yards.
 
MtnBuff said:
They don't recruit at the level of Oklahoma, Texas, Oklahoma State. They sometimes upset those schools but lose more than they win.

They recruit better than most of the rest of the B12 and consistently beat those schools.

No question that coaching has moved them up the standings compared to their recruiting but also no question that they are still second tier in that conference. They keep ending up finishing behind teams in the standings that aren't as well coached but that have better talent.

Could they jump up one year and win the conference? Yes, they recruit well enough and coach well enough that they could beat the teams they should, pull a couple upsets, and end up on top one year. That would though be their shining season as they then slide back down towards the middle again.

There are teams who consistently outperform their recruiting rankings. Iowa and Wisconsin are examples. You have to recognize though that they aren't outperforming them by huge margins, they still have talent.

At the same time we see some teams that are very poorly coached and always lose some games they shouldn't based on talent but in the end they still end up winning a lot of games. Classic example is USC. You could probably include Georgia in that group as well.
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The numbers don't show that though-and that's why I don't pay much attention to stars or recruiting ranking. By the way, they're 5-7 if my math against Oklahoma, OSU, and UT since 2017, and they beat Texas the last two years. Not what I'd call sometimes upsetting those schools.

Iowa and Wisconsin? Same deal. They both have cultures and systems that have been in place for years now, and they know how to recruit to them. Ferentz has been at Iowa for 21 years. Wisconsin has seen some turnover, but they have an identity. That's what needs to be in place here. FHCMM didn't do it-but we were so bad when he got here that it wasn't hard for him to leave this place in much better shape than it was before he found it. Mel Tucker (I can't stand him-but I'll give him this) knows what he wants to do, but wasn't here long enough to get that in place.
 
ahoelsken said:
The numbers don't show that though-and that's why I don't pay much attention to stars or recruiting ranking. By the way, they're 5-7 if my math against Oklahoma, OSU, and UT since 2017, and they beat Texas the last two years. Not what I'd call sometimes upsetting those schools.

Iowa and Wisconsin? Same deal. They both have cultures and systems that have been in place for years now, and they know how to recruit to them. Ferentz has been at Iowa for 21 years. Wisconsin has seen some turnover, but they have an identity. That's what needs to be in place here. FHCMM didn't do it-but we were so bad when he got here that it wasn't hard for him to leave this place in much better shape than it was before he found it. Mel Tucker (I can't stand him-but I'll give him this) knows what he wants to do, but wasn't here long enough to get that in place.
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Dude.
 
I thought A&M was gonna get in-but I'm having a hard time seeing why they shouldn't right now watching Ohio State...
 
ahoelsken said:
The numbers don't show that though-and that's why I don't pay much attention to stars or recruiting ranking. By the way, they're 5-7 if my math against Oklahoma, OSU, and UT since 2017, and they beat Texas the last two years. Not what I'd call sometimes upsetting those schools.

Iowa and Wisconsin? Same deal. They both have cultures and systems that have been in place for years now, and they know how to recruit to them. Ferentz has been at Iowa for 21 years. Wisconsin has seen some turnover, but they have an identity. That's what needs to be in place here. FHCMM didn't do it-but we were so bad when he got here that it wasn't hard for him to leave this place in much better shape than it was before he found it. Mel Tucker (I can't stand him-but I'll give him this) knows what he wants to do, but wasn't here long enough to get that in place.
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5-7 (3-7 if you take out a perpetual underperforming Texas) is still well below .500. And most importantly how often have they won their league?

No question their coaching is good but they are performing in line with their recruiting, and we may not want to hear it but Iowa State is recruiting better than Colorado and has been for some time. No they aren't top 20 but they aren't in the 60's either.

I am not in any way saying that coaching doesn't matter. I have given examples of programs that underperform their talent because of coaching. There are also programs that win more games than their talent level would indicate.

Fact is though that if you want to win your conference more than once every decade or two, if you want to be one of the programs that is regularly going to the top bowls and being mentioned for the playoff you aren't going to do it on average or below talent, doesn't matter how well coached they are.

Ultimately if you want to be on top you have to have talent that can get you there.

Wisconsin, Iowa, etc. may not be top 20 recruiting programs but they aren't taking many kids who don't have multiple offers from winning P5 programs. They may not beat Ohio State for a lot of recruits but they are beating Michigan and Penn State and each other for enough.

How many of our recruits this year had offers from P5 programs that are consistently in bowl games. I'm not talking about beating Kansas and Oregon State and Arizona for a recruit. I am talking about beating Oregon, Washington, etc for a guy they really wanted (not a backup plan offer.)
 
hawg1 said:
I think aTm deserves serious consideration.
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They're not getting in over tOSU and I don't think ND drops out of the top 4 with a loss. When you compare ND to A&M, ND will have the better win. Although it could get interesting if ND loses badly,. An ND win would likely get A&M in
 
The ACC & SEC teams have played 10 conference games this year while the Pac-12 and Big Ten basically had half of a conference schedule. I just don't see a strong argument for Ohio State in the CFP at this point. They beat Nebraska, Rutgers, Penn State, and Michigan State in addition to Indiana & Northwestern. The schedule strength doesn't hold up in this case.

Hopefully the ACC & SEC decides to move forward with nine conference game schedules if not ten conference game schedules after this season.
 
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