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Nick Hirschman Leaving

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OrangeBowl said:
Good luck to Nick.When someone thinks its time to move on,its probably time to move on.

If Klatt was good enough to play in the NFL he would have played in the NFL.He was good enough to get a look,as Sackman said,just ask him.
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As I recall, he was "retired" due to recurring issues stemming from the concussion (headaches, double vision) caused by that vicious hit in the UT game (when his "good friend", Barney, left him in far too long).

He was good enought to be signed by two teams, only to lose out to brain damage, which ended his FB career and enhanceded his media career.
Don't confuse the cause and effect of the two.
 
Kid has a chance to go to an elite academic institution, probably for free. If he were my kid, I'd tell him to do it, for sure. His comments about CU were so very classy. I really appreciate that. It raised him up on the Buff luv-a-meter for me.
 
Buffenuf said:
As I recall, he was "retired" due to recurring issues stemming from the concussion (headaches, double vision) caused by that vicious hit in the UT game (when his "good friend", Barney, left him in far too long).

He was good enought to be signed by two teams, only to lose out to brain damage, which ended his FB career and enhanceded his media career.
Don't confuse the cause and effect of the two.
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Concussions did not help, but "signed by two teams" is spinning it in a very positive manner. He was brought in by two different teams to be a training camp arm. Tyler Hansen was "signed" by a NFL team too.
 
Duff Man said:
Concussions did not help, but "signed by two teams" is spinning it in a very positive manner. He was brought in by two different teams to be a training camp arm. Tyler Hansen was "signed" by a NFL team too.
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That was the case with me. I was brought into camp thinking I actually had a shot. I showed up every day, worked my ass off, but was finally sent packing. It sucked. I built fires, cooked Smores, roasted hot dogs. It was a tough camp, and yet, I was sent packing, backpack in hand.
 
Duff Man said:
Average arm, average athleticism, average size, average record as a starter. Those guys don't stick around the NFL very long.
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Fair and balance.

How many chances did he get to start in the College so far? . And there a lot of above average arms in the NFL that turn out to be a bust. You don't need an above average arm to succeed in the NFL. You also don't need to be an above average athlete to succeed in the NFL at QB. Nick can throw the ball, his problem is decision making. If he plays and continues to improve on that part of his game, I don't see why he doesn't have a shot in the NFL. A ton of small school QBs starting right now in the NFL.
 
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bigbang2 said:
Fair and balance.

How many chances did he get to start in the College so far? . And there a lot of above average arms in the NFL that turn out to be a bust. You don't need an above average arm to succeed in the NFL. You also don't need to be an above average athlete to succeed in the NFL at QB. Nick can throw the ball, his problem is decision making. If he plays and continues to improve on that part of his game, I don't see why he doesn't have a shot in the NFL. A ton of small school QBs starting right now in the NFL.
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You know you responded to a post that had nothing to do with Nick Hirschman, right?
 
Duff Man said:
You know you responded to a post that had nothing to do with Nick Hirschman, right?
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It doesn't matter. The point still stands. Quarterbacks with above average arms have failed in the NFL, therefore Hirschman will make an NFL team with his average arm. Get with the program, Duff.
 
Buffnik said:
It doesn't matter. The point still stands. Quarterbacks with above average arms have failed in the NFL, therefore Hirschman will make an NFL team with his average arm. Get with the program, Duff.
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No

QB's with an average arm and average athlethecism have succeeded in the NFL ex Peyton Manning, get with with the program.
 
Duff Man said:
Peyton Manning has an average arm?:rofl:
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Yes his arm is average, good enough to complete a NFL throw. Guys like Joe Flacco, Jeff George, John Elway, Jay Cutler, Mcnabb have above average arms. Peyton intelligence is why he is successful in the NFL.
 
Duff Man said:
Peyton Manning has an average arm?:rofl:
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Dude just never could make all the throws. Probably no better athlete than I am. Manic film study is the only reason he's been able to succeed in the NFL. Get with the program, Duff.
 
bigbang2 said:
Yes his arm is average, good enough to complete a NFL throw. Guys like Joe Flacco, Jeff George, John Elway, Jay Cutler, Mcnabb have above average arms. Peyton intelligence is why he is successful in the NFL.
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Those guys have ELITE arms. I don't think you understand what average means. Manning would certainly not fit in that category.
 
Buffnik said:
Dude just never could make all the throws. Probably no better athlete than I am. Manic film study is the only reason he's been able to succeed in the NFL. Get with the program, Duff.
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Yep, even Chad Pennington with his average arm, pass velocity is average can make all of the throws in the NFl. But lacks the intelligence to anticipate throws, trick the defence. Lacks peyton ability to make quick pre snap and post snap reads. Lacks Peyton ability to make accurate throws. Lacks Peyton ability to make touch accurate passes over the linebackers and before the safeties can make a play. Lacks Peytons ability to look off the safeties among other things.
 
back to the game .....


Good luck young man. I hope everything works out the way you want it to and that it leads to much future success.
 
bigbang2 said:
No

QB's with an average arm and average athlethecism have succeeded in the NFL ex Peyton Manning, get with with the program.
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NOLMAO

Three things here,

Manning has an average to below average arm in terms of pure strength for the NFL. If that made any difference guys like Jeff George and Akili Smith would be the HOF QBs. What sets Manning apart is the fact that he can throw the ball well enough to make all the throws he needs to, and he makes those decisions and releases those throws perhaps as quickly, accurately, and to the right guy in the right spot as well as anyone who has ever played the game. Using a single criteria here is about as valid as saying that the CU offense will be unstoppable this year since we have multiple WRs who run faster than Jerry Rice did when he was playing.

Secondly, Klatt was never going to make an NFL roster short a bus wreck injuring the guys in front of him at the last minute. He was camp fodder, a guy brought in to keep the guys who were going to make the team from wearing out their arms throwing to receivers in camp who weren't going to make the roster either. He got multiple shots because he was liked by the coaches and he could run the training camp offenses without the coaches having to devote to much time to him letting them coach the guys who were going to be there. Klatt was the football equivelent of what he might have been in baseball had he been a little better, a career minor leaguer.

Third, I appreciate Hirsch and the fact that he came to CU in the depths of the program and gave it his all. He is a guy who has the arm strength to be a BCS QB and is big enough to be a BCS QB. Unfortunately he doesn't have quick enough feet or a quick enough release to be a successful BCS QB. I would feel much better about us if he were here next year as our backup QB but I can't begrudge him a bit for wanting to go someplace where he will have a chance to play as he works on his graduate degree, moreso if he takes the opportunity to get that degree from an Ivy league school.
 
Manning is below an Elway but his gun is enough. It's like getting a woman to nut and not fake it. U get results, ya know. Hirsch was a good young man and he wants what's best for him. As it is at CU, the head man is getting started quick, his way.
 
BuffLuKe said:
Manning is below an Elway but his gun is enough. It's like getting a woman to nut and not fake it. U get results, ya know. Hirsch was a good young man and he wants what's best for him. As it is at CU, the head man is getting started quick, his way.
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:lol:
 
Klatt had a steady football head, but wasn't the same after his shoulder injury. Had a pretty good arm before that. On a team with better depth at QB he'd have probably lost the starting job after the injury, but Barnett had slim pickins at the time. While B4L was ill-conceived, I like Joel OK on the Rockies wrap-up, and his other broadcasting stuff has been good. He'll have a career in media. Paying his dues hangin' with "Cowboy" Ringolsby.

Best of luck to Hirschman. He graduates in three weeks, and is prioritizing academics. These guys are real people and their only function isn't our entertainment 3 hours a week for 4 months a year.
 
Buffnik said:
It's completely average... for a superstar NFL quarterback. Get with the program, White.
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The whole point. In terms of arm strength Manning is average or even less for starting NFL QBs. Lots of guys can throw it longer than he can and faster than he can. Almost nobody can have the ball land in the hands of ther recievers with the kind of consistency that he does. Proof that accuracy, quickness or release, and decision making mean a lot more than being able to throw a ball through a brick wall.

How strong is Mannings arm, just strong enough to win and win and win some more.
 
Peyton Manning has above average arm strength most of his career. The neck surgeries have probably knocked it down closer to average, but the idea Manning has built a HOF with average or below average arm strength is laughable.
 
Well if his arm isn't as strong as Akili Smith's, Ryan Leaf's, or Jeff George's, then it's average. It's apparently a really fine line between throwing the ball 60 yards with ease, and Chad Pennington level.
 
A little clip from the CNN/SI War room evaluation of Manning prior to the draft

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/events/1998/nfldraft/topplayers/4.html

Summary Manning is probably the most prepared QB to enter the NFL draft in several years.. He has had a storybook college career, and has been in a top level program with excellent coaching, and he has maturity and great intangibles to go along with his natural skills.. He should be able to pick up the mental aspects of the game early on the NFL level, and should play very quickly. He has great overall field vision. He is a fierce competitor, and all of his mechanics are very solid. He has good arm strength, but not necessarily a “gun” that you might expect from a QB at the top of the draft.. He has adequate mobility and good overall AA
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Understand I am not being critical of him in any way. Saying that he doesn't have great arm strength is like saying that Jerry Rice didn't have great speed. In the end not having histories strongest gun or fastest feet didn't stop either one from being at the absolute top of their position. Jamarcus Russell had size, speed, and maybe one of the strongest arms that anyone has ever seen. He is out of the league because he couldn't turn those physical skills into wins. Manning on the other hand throws a nice ball but definately not a laser beam but somehow it always seems to go to the right guy at the right time and find that guys hands. He does all the little things that combined make him one of the games elite players ever.

I had never noticed it much with him before but last year I started to pay attention to not only who he threw the ball to but where he delivered that ball to the reciever. It was amazing how often he not only hit the reciever but hit him in the one spot or side that set him up to avoid the hit and get the most yards after the catch. Other QBs are happy with the completion, PM wants to make the completion and get maximum yards out of it.
 
Realize the context of what they're saying there Mtn. Manning came out the same year as Ryan Leaf. Compared to Ryan Leaf's arm strength, Manning did not have the "gun". Leaf was seen as the guy with unlimited potential while Manning was the "safe" pick.

There's a pretty big difference between "not a gun" and average arm.

I'm glad we got from talking about Joel Klatt having an average arm to some world where Peyton Manning has a similar arm. I blame buffenuff and bigbang.
 
Buffenuf said:
Yeah, walking away from competition for selfish reasons has always been a hallmark of leadership!

Its not like he's an NFL propect who's been shafted by this staff (ala Tom Brady at UM).
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Exactly. Which means, perhaps playing somewhere else and getting a Masters degree in what he wants, while being a starter there is the best thing for a guy who wants to actually play in a few more games before he is done for life with football. And with the benefit of having more education to support what he wants to do for a job in life.

Being selfish goes both ways. We spent the off season ripping Hirch apart, saying he isn't the answer, yet the second he decides to try to go somewhere else, you guys are bitching that he has no leadership or loyalty? Just because he diesnt want to be a backup AND no get the Masters he really wants?

Wow. Just...wow. I think he is doing the right thing for him. I wish him all the luck in the world. Having Manning on this team wasn't going to make a huge difference. Let Nick go chase his dreams without being snide or bitchy about it.
 
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