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Butch Jones

I can't really think of any realistic candidates that I like over Jones. Maybe, maybe Doeren. Beggers can't be choosers
 
Bronco Mendenhall. And yes that is a step down. I dont know for a fact, but rumblings are that he replaced Butch Jones with Jeff Quinn, because Quinn was his right hand man.
 
Duff Man said:
It is not a good move or a bad move. Hard to spin it as a a justification for why he should be the HC at CU though.
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I was not trying to spin it as a reason to hire him, just refuting that it was a negative as was espoused by Jimmy. It was also probably a pretty good raise. Lots of reasons to make the move and only one of them would be as Jimmy suggests. Lot more positive reasons to make the move than a single negative one put out by Jimmy.
 
Jimmy_Wood said:
Buffnik - Brian Kelly did at those programs the hardest part - He changed the culture to winning. That is the hardest part of any job. You can't say Butch Jones did that. Claiming Butch Jones was reason for success at CMU is absurd at best. Please use numbers in your arguments guys. Look at facts. I hate all this I think stuff. He was at CMU from 1998-2004 in some capacity.

(TE) 1998 - 6-5
(RB) 1999 - 4-7
(RB) 2000 - 2-9
(RB) 2001 - 3-8
(OC) 2002 - 4-8
(OC) 2003 - 3-9
(OC) 2004 - 4-7

He leaves CMU and they go 6-5 then 9-4.
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Kelly was definitely a better candidate than Jones. No argument there. That's why he got a Notre Dame job while Jones is looking at Kentucky, Purdue and Colorado.

I wasn't the one who claimed that Jones was the reason for success at CMU. Jones was not at the top of my list and I think I only saw parts of a couple Cincy games the last 2 years. I don't know much about him except that he's winning and runs the type of spread offense I like since it allows for better defensive performance than the old Air Raids.

I don't think Jones is the guy I would target if I was AD (it's hard to know that without the vetting and interview insight), but if he does end up hired I will be fully on board.

Frankly, I don't think fans are good about evaluating HC candidates unless the guy is obviously a slam dunk hire (Saban, Meyer, et al) or obviously underqualified vs other coaches who have gotten similar positions. Jones has won and recruited well at the places he's been a HC. I assume he'd do the same at CU.
 
One name that I haven't heard is Iowa State HC Paul Rhodes. He is a current BCS coach who has done pretty well at ISU. He has maxed out his ceiling at ISU, and Colorado in every world is a step up. I have not remotely heard anything about him, but thought I would throw it out there.
 
Buffalo Brad said:
Hmmmm. Moving from OC at CMU to WR at WVU, a BCS school was a step back? Looks to me like career progression and an investment in learning from a one of the leading minds on the Spread. Yea, bad move. Really?
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Thanks for throwing that punch at Woods. I'm sure Woods probably forgot that Rich Rod had some excellent passing teams at Clemson and Tulane as the OC there before coming to Morgantown so I'm sure Jones got some pointers from Rich Rod in the passing game as well.

Jones.
Dykes.
Doeren.

Those coaches won at school with subpar facilities and schools that are afterthoughts. That is just what CU needs at this point.
 
buffedup said:
One name that I haven't heard is Iowa State HC Paul Rhodes. He is a current BCS coach who has done pretty well at ISU. He has maxed out his ceiling at ISU, and Colorado in every world is a step up. I have not remotely heard anything about him, but thought I would throw it out there.
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ISU has invested in their program better than CU has in the last ten years. I wouldn't view ISU to CU as a step up at this point.
 
I like Davis I guess.... I actually prefer Andersen of Deruyter for reasons I can't explain
 
Orr said:
If you examine coaches with the solitary criterion 'did the most with the least', which is a fair consideration for our situation, MacIntyre is the guy.

Am I wrong to accuse you of having a bias against programs west of the Mississippi? Look deeply within your dirty-Southern soul (insomuch as you have one), and get back to me...
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Dirty Southern soul? What the hell?
 
Duff Man said:
Waiting for the wins to recruit CA, CO, and TX effectively is a bad strategy.
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You read my words wrong. CU will still be able to recruit from CA, CO, and TX. We won't be able to get the better players from those states until we start winning again and invest in facilities.
 
NashBuff said:
ISU has invested in their program better than CU has in the last ten years. I wouldn't view ISU to CU as a step up at this point.
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No CU is a step up over ISU because of the potential. ISU has also invested more, you're correct on that one but 6-7 wins is about the max for ISU.
 
Creatini said:
No CU is a step up over ISU because of the potential. ISU has also invested more, you're correct on that one but 6-7 wins is about the max for ISU.
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You are correct about the ceiling being higher at CU than ISU. But ISU now has two games in Texas every year in front of those Texas recruits. Once the shovels get into the ground for the IPF in Boulder, CU will be a step up above ISU again like old times. It's hard for people to comprehend how much CU has fallen in prestige after Big Mac retired but it did happen.
 
NashBuff said:
Thanks for throwing that punch at Woods. I'm sure Woods probably forgot that Rich Rod had some excellent passing teams at Clemson and Tulane as the OC there before coming to Morgantown so I'm sure Jones got some pointers from Rich Rod in the passing game as well.

Jones.
Dykes.
Doeren.

Those coaches won at school with subpar facilities and schools that are afterthoughts. That is just what CU needs at this point.
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McIntyre has fewer resources than all of those guys and beat Dykes this year. His team was 10-2 and they were looking to drop football before they hired him. Doesn't get any more down than that.
 
The never coached West of <fillintheblank> seems overblown. Rich Rod never did and now he is at Arizona. He is a bigger name then Jones of course. Meyer never coached East of Ohio before he went to Florida right? What am I missing?
 
Well they can show him the 10 year old Dicky Tharp IPF model on Monday I am sure he will see it as equivalent facilities ...
 
He may have an offer, and more will come potentially, but I hope he's at least willing to talk to us.

One reason to root for Jones is because this is Bohn's guy. There is no money or scandal issue so this will clearly define his ability to pick a football coach. For that reason I hope Jones comes here and is successful and we won't feel the need to analyze Bohn's decisions.
 
89BUFF89 said:
Well they can show him the 10 year old Dicky Tharp IPF model on Monday I am sure he will see it as equivalent facilities ...
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That can be good and bad. The good is that there is a vision but the bad would be that it has taken so long to get built and it could tell Jones what kind of support he could expect to get from CU and its fans & alumni.

At least he coached in the mountains at Morganstown...maybe he is up for that kind of living.
 
jimmy_wood said:
butch jones resume:

(1)in 15yrs as an assistant coach he only spent 1 yrs at a bcs school as a wr coach.

i'm not sure about other people, but this doesn't concern me at all. He has enough head coaching experience. A lack of experience as an assistant coach at the bcs level doesn't bother me.

(2) both head coaching jobs he inherited teams left by brian kelly. never had to build a program himself.he inherited a team in cinci that under brian kelly went 10-3, 11-3, 12-0.

this bothers me a little, but the same could be said of brian kelly himself. He took over cincinnati after mark dantonio then took over notre dame, a team that doesn't lack talent. His rebuilding job was at central michigan. He went 4-7, 6-5, and 9-3. Not really spectacular, but solid.

(3)butch jones takes over and goes 4-8, 10-3, 8-3. brian kelly had cinci ranked in top 20 all 3yrs. Butch jones has never had cinci ranked in top20.

let's break down the records a little more. Personally, i like looking at the range of games that i feel the coaches might have won or lost.

Brian kelly: 04 4-7 | 05 6-5 | 06 10-4 | 06 10-4 | 07 10-3 | 08 11-3 | 09 12-1
2004: 1 - 6 wins
2005: 1 - 10 wins
2006: 7 - 12 wins

2007: 8 - 13 wins
2008: 4 - 12 wins
2009: 7 - 12 wins

butch jones: 07 8-6 | 08 8-5 | 09 12-2 | 10 4-8 | 11 10-3 | 12 8-3 (so far)

2007: 4 - 10 wins
2008: 1 - 12 wins
2009: 6 - 12 wins

2010: 3 - 7 wins
2011: 6 - 11 wins
2012: 6 - 11 wins (so far)

so, as i look at this. It seems to me that brian kelly and butch jones both take their teams in an upward direction. They start off kind of iffy, in terms of lowest possible wins, then raise the bottom. Brian kelly goes from possibly only winning 1 game each of his first two years then raises that bottom to 7.75 the next 4 years. Butch jones goes from 2.5 least possible wins his first two years to 5.25 the next four years, a number noticeably lower than kelly's. Both of them have very high most possible wins, if we take out their first year on the job. The only real difference i see between butch's resume and kelly's is that butch hasn't had his "breakout" year at a bcs school yet. If he did, he probably wouldn't consider colorado. If we get him, we might be getting a very good coach that hasn't had just hasn't had that magical season.

(4)also, many analysts claim he needs a specific type of qb (think tebow) to have offensive success.
no opinion on this.

(5)in his career as hc he has beaten 1 ranked team #25 va tech earlier this year.

i'll refer to #3.

(6) never coached west of cinci & has no pac-12 ties.
again, this doesn't bother me as much. Coaches move cross country and still succeed, region doesn't matter to me, and i hope that bohn is looking for the best candidate regardless of where he is now.

(conclusion) in short. He would be a disaster most likely.

i'd bring it down from "most likely" to "maybe", as i would with most coaches. He doesn't seem like a must get, but we're probably not in a position to demand this kind of coach. If we got him, i'd be pretty excited.
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Shouldn't have quoted.
 
89BUFF89 said:
The never coached West of <fillintheblank> seems overblown. Rich Rod never did and now he is at Arizona. He is a bigger name then Jones of course. Meyer never coached East of Ohio before he went to Florida right? What am I missing?
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I think what you are missing, at least if you are responding to my post, is that my concer is with recruiting, not coaching.

Rich Rod did not recruit that well in his transition year, though he was able to keep a four star in Kelley, and flip a local four star in Hemmila who was ticketed for ASU (another program undergoing a coaching change) His class was otherwise pretty bad. Number 46 in the country per Rivals, with an average star of 2.88.

His recruiting this year is actually a bit worse, at 2.73 stars per recruit, with 26 kids verballed. Not that great to me.

And Rich Rod has a huge name recognition advantage over Butch Jones.

My concern remains that Jones will have problems recruiting West of Iowa unless he surrounds himself with at least a few well known, good recruiters, who have experience and success in the areas we traditionally recruit to.
 
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